published Sunday, August 22nd, 2010

Exiting Iraq

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Tax_Payer said...

I believe we did move out too early. History shows that it takes at least one generation to reinforce ideology and practices after the aggressions of war tone down. I perceive, the old will rise again as it was before the US went in there. It will only be a matter of time, perhaps 5 years for the old empowerment is in full play.

Has our service men in women died in vain? I kind of think so.

August 22, 2010 at 12:09 a.m.
acerigger said...

Has our service men in women died in vain? I kind of think so. Username: Tax_Payer | On: August 22, 2010 at 12:09 a.m Me too,taxpayer,sad 2 say.

August 22, 2010 at 1:44 a.m.
codymaxwell said...

but they want to slam that sledgehammer down on (jesus believing) human skulls no matter what we do over there--right? a fearful look over the left shoulder is all we got.

get out while the gettin' is good--pack it up and hope for only "small" catastrophes until the next election.

all-encompassing love (liberality) has shown its prejudice--they hate that place as much as oil-mongers do

August 22, 2010 at 1:47 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Uhh, we haven't left. We are going to have 50,000 troops remaining for training through 2011. COMBAT troops will be leaving which means we will not be actively engaging the terrorists.

The remaining troops will engage in training, advisory duties, and to protect American interests.

The Iraq's have 440,000 police and 220,000 soldiers. How much longer do we need our soldiers dying before they decide to help themselves?

We have spent 1 Trillion dollars on this war. That's Trillion with a T.

We will spend billions more with the remaining troops to help keep the country safe during the transition. The good news is we will not have troops out actively engaging the terrorists and dying. Could we get a little shout out for that fact?

We can thank Bush for his ill conceived attempt at nation building. We cannot babysit that corrupt country forever and drain hundreds of billion out of our treasury.

August 22, 2010 at 4:33 a.m.
EaTn said...

Vietnam fractured this country, Iraq crumbled it. The lessons of useless wars by our leaders are never learned.

August 22, 2010 at 5:15 a.m.
anniebelle said...

uh, cody, i think it was that born agin Xtian that put the sledge hammer down on all those innocent Iraqis -- men women and children. Not one Iraqi was involved in 9/11, yet our wonderful Xtian leader decided, because he had a grudge against Saddam, to present them with 'shock and awe' -- nice! How many Iraqi's did he 'liberate' from their lives, their homes, their country? I guess we'll never know.

August 22, 2010 at 6:25 a.m.
dss said...

Oh, the halcyon days of Iraq under the great Saddam Hussein! Recommended reading: Saddam's Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied and Survived Saddam Hussein. http://www.amazon.com/Saddams-Secrets-General-Survived-Hussein/dp/1591454042

August 22, 2010 at 7:25 a.m.

Tax_Payer, acerigger, I'm afraid you are both correct. Of course, I've been saying that since before the war began. We should never have been in Iraq in the first place.

August 22, 2010 at 8:20 a.m.
OllieH said...

Al-Qaeda hated Saddam Hussein just as much as they hated us.

Saddam's Iraq may have been predominantly Islamic (although split into two warring factions of Muslims), but it was also a modern, secular government. His government was brutal- no question. His authority was absolute- most definitely. But it was a tradeoff the United States could live with for decades and one that our government was glad to support if it meant quashing communist elements within the country in the 1960's or going to war with Iran in the 1980's.

As the old joke goes:

Question: How does the United States know that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction?

Answer: We have the receipts.

So, putting aside the false pretense for the war, the question is- what now? What happens to a country that was held together by the boot of a dictator, once that dictator is gone? I'm afraid it's not a pleasant answer.

Ask the Yugoslavians what happens in such a case. Oh yeah, there ARE no Yugoslavians any more. Shortly after Tito died there was genocidal ethnic cleansing and a bloody regional war that lead to the establishment of five separate countries- Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia/Herzegovina, and Macedonia.

The same will happen in Iraq, I'm afraid. And that's the problem with liberating a country that was always at war with itself.

What the U.S. is trying to establish in Iraq (one country), may well be impossible to achieve. Eventually, I think it will split into three nations- one for the Sunnis, one for the Shiites, and one for the Kurds. And if the Kurds establish an autonomous nation, look for Turkey to immediately go to war with it.

It's a mess, and it was destined to be a mess regardless of the spurious motivations in the beginning. We knew there were no WMD in Iraq. What we didn't know is that there was no Iraq in Iraq. Instead, there were three separate countries longing to establish their own independence.

August 22, 2010 at 9:57 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

dss opined; "Oh, the halcyon days of Iraq under the great Saddam Hussein! Recommended reading: Saddam's Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied and Survived Saddam Hussein."

Nobody said Hussein was Mister Rogers. His Sunni government was, however, a strategic wedge between Shia Iran and Syria. Remember the photo of Rumsfeld gleefully shaking his hand?

And we certainly got a kick out of it when he invaded Iran. We gladly sold him arms, including the chemical weapons he used to gas Iraqi Kurds.

But as bad as Hussein was, and he was as evil and dictatorial as any leader who ever lived, removing him from power was still worth one drop of American blood.

August 22, 2010 at 10:13 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Wise words,Ollie.

August 22, 2010 at 10:14 a.m.
alprova said...

blackwater48 wrote: "But as bad as Hussein was, and he was as evil and dictatorial as any leader who ever lived, removing him from power was still worth one drop of American blood."


The minute that Hussein was hung, that was when we should have exited the country, for good.

As unfortunate as it may be that the country would have erupted in civil war, or will in the future, that eventuality will have to happen if peace will ever have a chance to root.

The United States has had a long history of overtly meddling in the affairs of other nations. There are of course, varying opinions as to how successful such efforts have been, but the fact is that the lives of too many men and women have been sacrificed, not in defense of THIS country, and these same men and women were not afforded a choice to give up their lives to fight a war in which they had no stake whatsoever.

People, we have to rid our Government of all those who would manipulate our economy in such a way that we are held hostage to the whims and desires of a select few, and who also profit from war.

Could it be that the military has become the number one Corporate entity in this nation?

Step 1.) Use Republican domination over a couple of decades to foster a tax-free and profitable environment favorable for manufacturers to not only open businesses, but to virtually relocate their businesses to third-world countries.

Step 2.) Reduce competition by favoring corporate entities, that drive small businesses out of existence. Then the populace becomes beholden to and dependent on a very narrowed list of employers.

Step 3.) Spend years driving down wages for middle income earners, eradicate benefits that made people loyal to employers, and of course, don't forget to gradually abolish all unions as well.

Step 4.) 'Elect' a Republican President through the Supreme Court, who spends months convincing a nation that we must send our men and women into obscure regions of the world to right a wrong, based on flawed and convoluted intelligence.

Step 5.) Call for a vote in Congress. Declare war.

Step 6.) Print the purchase orders. Start the procession of military convoys toward our ports. Flood the airwaves with advertisements aimed at those who have little or no hope of finding a decent job through private enterprise. Raise the eligible age limits for military service.

Step 7.) Spend a decade writing checks to war profiteers. Don't forget to capture a war criminal every now and again, in order to keep up appearances and to justify an extended stay of occupation.

Step 8.) Move from nation to nation in an elusive effort to capture or eradicate those "responsible" for horrible atrocities committed to our people a decade ago.

Step 9.) Pass the baton to the Democrats. Crank up the rhetoric to assure everyone that it is now THEIR war.

Step 10.) Rinse and repeat to allow the process to begin anew, if the people are stupid enough to vote 'em back in to power.

August 22, 2010 at 12:40 p.m.
InspectorBucket said...

Concentrating on minutiae in the foreground will always distract you from seeing the larger pattern.

Look east, and look quickly. The balloon is going up, and the scene will change shortly.

**

"The jet, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship."

Iran unveils long-range drone bomber August 22, 2010 http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/08/22/2740565/iran-unveils-long-range-drone-bomber

**

Odierno: Iran Funding Extremists in Iraq VOA News 22 August 2010 http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Odierno-Iran-Funding-Extremists-in-Iraq-101257889.html

**

Iran test-fires new missile Friday, August 20, 2010 17:53 Mecca time, 14:53 GMT http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/08/2010820125438226453.html

**

Caracas to continue Iran gas export Thursday, August 19, 2010 13:24 Mecca time, 10:24 GMT http://english.aljazeera.net/business/2010/08/201081984110981175.html

August 22, 2010 at 3:02 p.m.
hotdiggity said...

Ollie and Alprova, great perspectives regarding this issue.

One of my main objections to the start of this war, (besides the fact I believed there were no WMD's), was that by destroying Iraq we would be upsetting the balance of power in that region. For years after Iran and Iraq had fought each other, they had achieved a stalemate whereas both were loathe to attack the other due to the strength of their respective military.

In addition, Saddam, for all his brutality, was a bulwark against the spread of the extremists. This was why we supported him in his war against Iran. Saddam did not allow the spread of these radical factions in Iraq.

So what happened when we invaded Iraq, (besides spending 1 Trillion dollars, over 4,000 dead Americans, thousands of maimed Americans, tens of thousands of innocent Iraq's killed)?

The answer is we empowered and strengthened Iran by doing away with the counterbalance of Iraq. We were forced to defend the borders of Iraq against infiltration of extremists that the Iraq army had previously been in charge of by dismantling their army. Our invasion of an Islamic country, horrific civilian deaths, Abu Ghraib, etc. created a breeding ground for recruitment of extremists against America.

I am no apologist for Saddam. He was an evil person who controlled his country with an iron fist. But he posed no threat to us and provided a measure of stability to the region. Now we are relegated to defending the spread of extremism in the region from Iran and others that Saddam had been able to thwart. We have, in effect, taken over the mantle and policies of Saddam in regards to stopping the spread of extremism in the region.

Oh, and did I mention that the Iraq constitution, crafted with the help of the previous administration, sets up a universal health care system in Iraq? In the Bush administrations rush to make Iraq a democracy and their help in crafting their constitution it seems like they had no qualms about the country instituting universal health care for THEIR citizens with the backing of OUR money. Strange.

August 22, 2010 at 4:29 p.m.
hambone said...

Invading Iraq has been the worst mistake this country has ever made (to date). The people of Iraq would have overthrown Saddam when they had enough of him and replaced him with another just like him, which in time is what is going to happen anyway.

August 22, 2010 at 5:36 p.m.
hambone said...

Big Bird must be keeping the Sabbath !

August 22, 2010 at 7:34 p.m.
alprova said...

hotdiggity wrote: "I am no apologist for Saddam. He was an evil person who controlled his country with an iron fist. But he posed no threat to us and provided a measure of stability to the region."


The ONLY exception I would take to your wonderful commentary, is that Saddam was a threat to Israel. If memory serves me correct, he lobbed more than a few missiles in their direction during the early nineties, but always just short of actually hitting targets within Israel.

Hussein, very much like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, was a "I dare you," kind of man. He taunted and toyed with the patience of the United States Government and our military. What happened, I suppose, was inevitable. I'm just not so sure that we should have ever sent in ground troops.

I know that Israel seems to be central to much of what ails the Middle East these days, but we as a nation took on a long-standing commitment to protect those people, and I still agree with that commitment today.

Thus, a threat to Israel is a threat to the United States, of sorts. Saddam needed to go, but there is little doubt by anyone that it opened up a very rancid can of worms.

August 23, 2010 at 12:46 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Alprova, thanks for the correction and I agree. By the region I meant between Iraq and Iran. My bad.

I agree we had no need to send in ground troops. We had him totally contained with the northern and southern no fly zones and were picking off any anti-aircraft batteries that dared to fire at us. What a waste.

While I am at it I just wanted to say again how much I enjoy your posts. Reasoned and well thought out.

August 23, 2010 at 2:45 a.m.
rolando said...

The posters here are too interested in the minutiae to bother with real-world issues, Inspector.

The east will destroy the village to save it [to paraphrase their words].

August 23, 2010 at 4:37 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

Rolando, glad to see you posting again. Hopefully you can keep us up to date on "real world issues" with your unique insights.

August 23, 2010 at 8:14 a.m.
xsiveporsche said...

This may be off the mark but think about things this way. By taking out Saddam we defended Iran. Who would be have used the weapons of mass destruction against first, his enemy to the east, Iran. As far as Isreal goes think of them a a bully surronded by bigger bullies. The only reason they survive like they do is because of the US. We could force them to come to terms with Hammas and everyone else by just telling them no more weapons or support until you do. But the Jewsish people in this country would be up in arms with whichever party did that. I still beleive it is time the people in this country raise up unified and tell outr government enough is enough.

August 23, 2010 at 8:34 a.m.
alprova said...

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Israel come to the table numerous times, agreed each and every time to extend a hand of peace, only to have shells land on their lands shortly thereafter, again each and every time?

While I state that Israel is central to many of the problems that are ongoing over there, I'm not sure that it translates to it being their fault that they are surrounded by those who want them eradicated.

Hamas is not interested in being peaceful. They want every last Israeli off of lands that they consider to be theirs. They are for the most part, aided and funded by Iran's leadership, who has made it more than clear that they would murder every single Israeli if given half a chance.

Arabs have never accepted the United Nations brokered land deal that was negotiated in 1948, and history reflects that they likely never will.

August 23, 2010 at 9:54 a.m.
alprova said...

hotdiggity wrote: "While I am at it I just wanted to say again how much I enjoy your posts. Reasoned and well thought out."


Thank you for the kind words.

I am but one of many who make this forum what it is on a daily basis, which more often than not, is a meeting of the minds by those who care enough to come to the table.

August 23, 2010 at 10 a.m.
amazonmuze said...

So, it was "terrorist fighting" that we were a-doin in Iraq, ey? and what terrorists would that be? The ones with the weapons of mass destruction...? And, please enlighten me, how is a "country" corrupt..too dry for yas or sumthin. The arrogance of our citizens, fueled by our government's propaganda is sickening, but the willingness of our people to believe it, is heartbreaking. OneLove!! Boo

August 23, 2010 at 6:55 p.m.
ITguy said...

Alprova, Once again I completely agree with you. While I am sympathetic to the claims of oppression by the Palestinian people, I can never condone the murder of innocent people for political means. So long as Hamas and others are unwilling to accept the right of Israel to exist, the US must continue to support Israel.

Iraq was a huge mistake, but we cannot ignore the barbaric practices of the Taliban in Afganistan. Our consistent international policy must be to stand for basic human rights for all people, regardless of race, gender, or religion.

August 23, 2010 at 7:05 p.m.
FM_33 said...

There will be no pull out operation because the bible states that whole area along with Russia and China in the nesting ground for the battle of armageddon.

The whole thing was a trap from the beginning and if there is a fast pull out then the Islamic terrorist will step in and take those areas over Al-Qaida type activity.

We are slowly heading toward World War 3 so be ready and hope that we all will make it though these dark times ahead.

August 23, 2010 at 7:21 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Palestinian people could have had a home land had they followed a more moderate leader instead of wasting all those years with Arafat and his PLO faction.

He costed more Palestinian people to lose there life in sense less war's with all those Muslim country's over a 20 year period. The Muslim contry's had given the PLO better deals that Israel could never ever given and Arafat being a Marxist Gurrellia who was trained by the KGB in Russia.

He was trained to always double crossed and destroy each and every one of them until he could maintain power for the Socialist movement.

August 23, 2010 at 7:34 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Pulling out of Iraq at this point will be the destruction of our economy and our National Security as we know it because of the looming and consent treat from the Al-Qaida network.

The facts are showing this to be quite true each and every day as we go deeper into this conflict which will not end during or even after President Barrack Obama term is over with.

So buckle down and enjoy the firework show because it gonna be a hum dinger.

August 23, 2010 at 7:42 p.m.
FM_33 said...

This nation better learn how to pray to the Lord Jesus Christ !

For he and he alone is the only protection against the coming future evil worldwide death count and misery that Satan and his demons are planning for all mankind.

Ripley would say "Believe it or Not"!

August 23, 2010 at 7:48 p.m.
alprova said...

Sarah Palin seems to be EVERYWHERE lately. Look where I found her today;

http://i.imgur.com/c4Vov.jpg

August 23, 2010 at 8:50 p.m.
ITguy said...

The only way we will ever have peace is for Christians, Jews, and Muslims to all three stop thinking that they are the only true religion. We are all children of the same creator. To think that God will destroy all non-Christians in some fiery final battle, is frankly a very twisted theology.

August 23, 2010 at 9:40 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Sarah Palin seems to be EVERYWHERE lately. Look where I found her today;

http://i.imgur.com/c4Vov.jpg Username: alprova | On: August 23, 2010 at 8:50 p.m.


Good post Alprova and remember that the GOP machine that created her will push full steam ahead as we get closer towards the election of 2012.

August 24, 2010 at 2:34 p.m.
FM_33 said...

The only way we will ever have peace is for Christians, Jews, and Muslims to all three stop thinking that they are the only true religion. We are all children of the same creator. To think that God will destroy all non-Christians in some fiery final battle, is frankly a very twisted theology. Username: ITguy | On: August 23, 2010 at 9:40 p.m.


Thank you as well for a great post ITguy but the war between good and evil is already going on inside the mind and soul of each and every person that is walking the planet at this present moment.

Keep up the good posting and yes ITguy Jesus does save and he loves you very much weather you accept him or not.

August 24, 2010 at 2:37 p.m.
FM_33 said...

The posters here are too interested in the minutiae to bother with real-world issues, Inspector.

The east will destroy the village to save it [to paraphrase their words]. Username: rolando | On: August 23, 2010 at 4:37 a.m.


Thank you sir for that post and nice to see you back in the swing of things.

August 24, 2010 at 2:41 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Big Bird must be keeping the Sabbath ! Username: hambone | On: August 22, 2010 at 7:34 p.m.


LOL.......thanks for the laugh Hambone.

August 24, 2010 at 2:42 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Blackwater48 yes Jesus loves you as well even if you do not accept him as your personal savour.

August 24, 2010 at 2:44 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Oh, the halcyon days of Iraq under the great Saddam Hussein! Recommended reading: Saddam's Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied and Survived Saddam Hussein. http://www.amazon.com/Saddams-Secrets-Ge... Username: dss | On: August 22, 2010 at 7:25 a.m.


Good point Dss and not to forget that Saddam was some what a creation of the CIA.

August 24, 2010 at 2:46 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Think about what if * Stan Lee * had this issue roll off the press in New York City.

Marvel Comics Presents.........

What If Issue # 102

WHAT IF CHE GUEVERA / SADDAM HUSSEIN / HUGO CHAVEZ / FIDEL CASTRO ......WHERE AGENTS OF THE CIA !

Nuff Said !

August 24, 2010 at 2:54 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Or how about this issue just for laughs......

What If Issue # 103

WHAT IF SARAH PALIN WAS A HARD CORE COMMUNIST AND WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE SOVIET UNION DURING THE 1980's !

Nuff Said !

August 24, 2010 at 2:59 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Here's a issue just for my pal Dewey60.....

What If Issue # 104

WHAT IF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS ALLOWED TO RUN THE WHOLE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT FOREVER WITH OUT EVER LEAVING OFFICE !

Nuff Said !

  • Dewey60 would love that issue for days on end *
August 24, 2010 at 3:05 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Shall we contiune you Marvel Comics lovers.....

What If Issue # 105

WHAT IF ANN COULTER WAS THE WIFE AND FIRST LADY TO PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON DURING HIS 2 TERMS IN OFFICE IN THE 1990's !

Nuff Said !

August 24, 2010 at 3:11 p.m.
FM_33 said...

And here's the classic issue of all time folks.....

What If Issue # 106

WHAT IF BARACK H.OBAMA WAS THE 1st PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES INSTEAD OF GEORGE WASHINGTON !

Nuff Said !

August 24, 2010 at 3:16 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Don't you all love poiltical * What If * Marvel Comic issues ?

I do and wish me and Stan could hook up on some of these ideas and print all the issues above just for laughs and to see how many people would by either one of the classic issue's.

What a sells drive that would be huh..$

August 24, 2010 at 3:20 p.m.
FM_33 said...

I am sorry folks but another issue came to mind just now and would this be a laugh or not ?

What If Issue # 94

WHAT IF HILLARY R. CLINTON WAS THE DIRECTOR OF THE FBI DURING THE 1960's INSTEAD OF J.EDGAR HOOVER !

Nuff Said !

August 24, 2010 at 3:27 p.m.
FM_33 said...

Hee...Hee...Heee ~~~~~~

August 24, 2010 at 3:29 p.m.
ITguy said...

FM, You may be surprised to learn that I am a Christian. I have studied theology for over 35 years. There are many Christian scholars who reject the theology of fundamentalism. In fact, most believe that fundamentalists have done more harm than good.

Any group of people who believe that they know the "TRUTH" and that every one else is wrong, is a dangerous group of people. That counts for Muslims, Christians, Jews, and every one else.

Trust me on this, God is bigger than anything you can imagine. If you think you know the mind of God, you are wrong.

August 24, 2010 at 8:39 p.m.

So are you Ittie. The Lord God of Israel is the final Arbiter, not so-called 'scholars' who lie, twist, take Biblical words out of context and deceive many. Don't like "fundamentalists" eh? Figures. The Truth of the Word of God has a funny way of getting in the way of Progressives who don't like to be convicted of their own sins, so they dispose of what they don't care to read, follow or hear.

We have a name for you guys: Straight from Jesus's own Word: "...false teachers and prophets will deceive many in the Last Days, leading many astray.."

"Any group of people" who threaten us, calling us extremists because we quote and believe Infallible Scripture, are suspect and are NOT true followers of Christ. Anyone can read the Book. Very few can comprehend and those not given the Spirit and Wisdom will never understand.

No wonder so many lax, lazy, unscriptural churches and denominations are losing so many congregants nowadays. You don't preach the Truth of Scripture, people's lives don't change and everyone loses.

Better try again IT. I have a feeling you're just another imposter who loves to post here and trash the real believing Folks.

August 29, 2010 at 2:11 p.m.
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