published Wednesday, July 28th, 2010

The Advisory System

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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blackwater48 said...

Great cartoon.

Republicans love to tell us what to fear and who to blame in slogans that fit neatly on bumper stickers. They favor politics over policy because once you get past tax cuts for the rich they got nothing.

Arizona is about to learn the real cost of cracking down of illegal immigration and legal citizens will soon enjoy the privilege of producing their "papers, please."

What a country.

If you want to stop illegal immigration fine the employers a million bucks and throw them in jail for a year. If there are no jobs there will be no illegal job applicants, but employers don't wan it to stop. They love cheap labor.

Real solutions don't fit on bumper stickers.

July 28, 2010 at 12:55 a.m.
OllieH said...

No matter what the proponents of this measure say, and no matter how the bill was written, there's just no way to avoid the racial profiling that will occur once this law goes into effect. Unless the police in Arizona ask every single person they stop or arrest for proof of citizenship.

July 28, 2010 at 1:09 a.m.
dougmusn said...

The AZ law should be enforced--vigorously. Unless you are an Apache or other true AZ "native american", you better have your passport/birth certificate handy. Once the traffic jams start, all the citizens of AZ will recognize the folly and intrinsic racism of the statute and it will hopefully be sent into the dust bin of history.

July 28, 2010 at 5:29 a.m.
EaTn said...

Good news Arizonians, the recent law is already taking the intended affect and illegals are leaving in droves. Bad news Arizonians, your already sagging economy is very dependent to that exiting population.

We have Tennessee state legislators and their supporters jumping for joy over the Az law, but has anyone really stopped to think that most of those jumping out of Az are not going back across the border. Our state is connected with easy interstate access.

July 28, 2010 at 7:02 a.m.
Sailorman said...

What color code is on the signs outside the US park areas along the border warning US citizens to stay out?

July 28, 2010 at 7:46 a.m.
moonpie said...

EaTN points out that the law is taking effect already with people leaving Arizona in droves.

This is an immigration policy experiment. As it occurs, people on all sides of this issue should take advantage of the real opportunity to assess the social, economic, political and ethical consequences.

We should all resist the temptation to be subjective observers. We should be objective. In this way, we can ultimately see what is best policy, not only in theory, but in practice.

July 28, 2010 at 7:56 a.m.
Livn4life said...

I wish all you who oppose this law could live in constant concern over your property and possessions being threatened by illegal persons invading. My ancestors came from Western Europe a couple of centuries ago with NOTHING! They entered legally and struggled as they sought to become citizens and find a better way of life. Why should anyone else be allowed to do what socalled "immigrants"(illegals)do today? So we make laws. In fact we have laws but an irresponsible group running the federal government who sit back and judge Arizona for at least attempting to help a terrible situation. So go ahead, rant, judge and name call all you like. I challenge you to move to Arizona and you might discover your perspective changes quickly.

July 28, 2010 at 9:25 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I agree with you, L4L, but we are all part of the problem. These people for the most part come to the US to work (yes, some of them are here to commit crimes but most are not) We as consumers demand low prices, the corporations respond by hiring those that cannot receive benefits, cannot defend themselves in cases of workplace dangers, and will not complain when harassed or mistreated. Sad thing is, these low wages and poor working conditions represent an improvement over what they had at home.

If this law did not promote profiling (and will likely lead to harassment of legal citizens) and was combined with severe penalties for hiring illegals or providing false documents for illegals, I might feel more supportive. I would like to purchase only products that were produced without exploiting illegals, but how would I know? It's not an easy situation, and sealing the border is impossible.

It's the same as the drug trade. If we didn't buy the drugs, people wouldn't smuggle them in. Follow the trail of money, from those that smuggle in people to those who produce false documents and those who knowingly hire illegals.

July 28, 2010 at 9:37 a.m.
BOOBOO99 said...

Ive been to arizona a couple of times, But After this racist law passed by this racist governor Jan brewer I will never spend another dime in that state again.. Ive been reading a lot venues such as Concerts, sporting events etc that brings millions to Arizona are boycotting this state becuase of their racist views. Yes a lot of Mexicans are leaving this state but not back to mexico just to other states where they arent judge by the color of their skin..

July 28, 2010 at 9:38 a.m.
AlmostAmanda said...

L4L when did your ancestors arrive? It's a little ridiculous to claim that your ancestors and modern would-be immigrants are in the same boat, since during most early immigration waves all one had to do was show up and be white. The current application process is intentionally complicated and ensures that people can't show up with nothing. Unless the immigration process is simplified, the demand for cheap, disposable labor is penalized, this bill is going to do little to deter illegal immigration and a lot to harass legal citizens/immigrants who just happen to have darker skin tones.

July 28, 2010 at 10:19 a.m.
nucanuck said...

L4L,

Your ancestors broke no rules because there were none. My guess is they got off the boat and scrambled to find a way to survive,not very different from today's illegals.

My family's first arrival was 457 years ago and I doubt that any of the native Americans considered him "legal".

Almost all immigrants come here to find a job. On the list of crimes,that rates pretty low in my book.

July 28, 2010 at 10:27 a.m.

Lets look at it this way, if someone broke into your house and setup camp in your bedroom, ate your food, used your water and electricity and monopolized your TV, you would be on the phone to the police to have them removed. Does that make you a racist?

If it does, every one of you is a racist.

If you would sit idly by and let this happen and not call the police, please post your address below.

July 28, 2010 at 11:24 a.m.
nucanuck said...

FPSE,

Be a little more realistic and assume an illegal rented next to you,paid all payroll taxes in someone else's name (meaning he could not benefit),worked hard,paid sales taxes,and was generally a responsible person.

How are you or your community impacted? Better off? Worse off? No difference?

July 28, 2010 at 11:51 a.m.
dss said...

Nucanuck,

If that were the case, this law would in no way affect your hypothetical illegal, correct?

July 28, 2010 at 12:04 p.m.
dss said...

...or does he have to be taking his family for ice cream to be arrested?

July 28, 2010 at 12:05 p.m.

Nucanuck, Well, being that he/she is a criminal stealing benefits that a legal immigrant could be taking advantage of, it hurts the community.

Besides, identity theft is a huge problem. Why don't you list your social security number below so a responsible illegal can pay taxes in your name?

July 28, 2010 at 12:10 p.m.
nucanuck said...

I do not support or agree with illegal immigration. Period.

At the same time,I don't find fault with job seekers going where the jobs are. It's a,we want them,but we don't, situation. A job seeker is along way from a criminal to my way of thinking.

A data base for ALL wokers would not be that difficult and would effectively stop the inflow of undocumented workers. Until then this issue will remain a red meat, election divisive,nation damageing hot potato.

July 28, 2010 at 12:34 p.m.
nucanuck said...

FPSE,

Stealing benefits? My hypothetical undocumented worker would pay into the system the same as you and I.

July 28, 2010 at 12:38 p.m.
EaTn said...

I guess we can add an additional line to the bottom of this toon check-list entitled "Never Mind" as I just read that a federal judge just put an injunction against the most controversial parts of the law.

July 28, 2010 at 1:42 p.m.

Nucanuck, Yes. A job is a benefit of living in a country that provides them. It's not a right of being a human in need of employment. Affordable housing is the same deal. If there were no benefit to living here, they wouldn't commit a crime to be here.

They are stealing their way in and stealing benefits from those who might legally take advantage of them. Countries south of here must not be providing these things or they wouldn't bother coming to ours.

Did you think I was talking about welfare? I wasn't, but now that you mention it, there is no guarantee that the illegal living next to you is actually practicing a trade that is legal in this country. I believe the fact that these illegals are not the rosy, wonderful neighbors you describe is the reason Arizona made their law. They are more often gangbangers or human/drug trafficers preying upon the citizens of this country than the hard working "responsible" types you describe. Does "kidnapping capitol" ring any bells for you? They are more likely to be welfare recipients as well. Why work for pennies when you can do nothing and get dollars?

This law doesn't apply to legal immigrants so it isn't a racist law. It applies to criminals. Why would you want to protect a criminal?

I'm glad you don't agree with illegal immigration, but I think you are naive to think that a database would solve this issue. That database won't stop illegals from crossing the border. As you said, they are working and paying taxes under a stolen identity. That database would be full of stolen identities used by the criminals who continued to cross the border.

It's like a stop sign. You don't really have to stop at them if you are willing to get a ticket when you are caught. Gates, barriers, damaging spikes etc.. are the only things that would truly make you stop. Enforcement of federal laws and barriers to entry are exactly what we need to stop illegals from entering. It's the only solution that is going to work.

July 28, 2010 at 1:47 p.m.
nucanuck said...

FPSE,

I suppose we can agree to disagree. I see the percentage of "bad guys" as small. I see poor,poorly educated,and willing to work hard at anything.

I can tell you that here in Canada,until you get work documentation,you might pick up some "for cash" work,but that's about it. There are several catagories for temporary work,but mostly you have to be a legal resident to be able to get a job. Getting in the country is easy enough,undocumented employment...very difficult,fake documents...very difficult. Result...almost a non-existant illegal alien problem.

The cold hard truth is that in the US,the government sees the problem as more political than economic. Capitalism requires growth,the US birth rate is low and falling,without more people/consumers,debt driven capitalism sputters toward recession.

Looking for scapegoats for economic woes has led to the guy on the bottom rung of the ladder. I believe corporate abuse to be at the center of US economic problems,with undocumented workers being a minor,easily fixable problem and not a contributor to the current economic downturn.

July 28, 2010 at 2:54 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

BW48 wrote,

"If you want to stop illegal immigration fine the employers a million bucks and throw them in jail for a year."

Hey, there is something I could support, so long as it applied to all employers of illegals equally.

Own a chicken processing plant with illegal workers, you get BW48's hammer. Own a lawn care business with illegal workers, you get BW48's hammer. Have an illegal maid in your Park Avenue Penthouse, you get BW48's hammer. Pay illegals to get out on the streets and protest for amnesty or whatever, you get BW48's hammer.

It would work, too. Those without documentation would disappear pretty quickly when the jobs disappeared.

Too bad those holding the reins of power are to stupid and/or bought-off to apply a common sense solution such as you have proposed.

July 28, 2010 at 4:47 p.m.
sd said...

moonpie said, "This is an immigration policy experiment. As it occurs, people on all sides of this issue should take advantage of the real opportunity to assess the social, economic, political and ethical consequences."

Nailed it. Like it or hate it, there it is, now pay attention and see what happens.

Politicians have bent over backwards to avoid actually having to bring BW48's hammer, as we're now calling it, down on businesses in a serious and penalizing way. The result of stiffer, reliably-enforced penalties would be less undocumented workers finding work, which would also lead to higher prices on the goods and services those companies produce. And there's nothing a voter hates more than higher prices. I'm not sure how our politicians, loving their careers as they do, will worm their way around that one.

July 28, 2010 at 5:47 p.m.
FM_33 said...

The whole internet system here in the United States is run from a CIA office in Signal Mountain TN.

They also contract with the US Military the basic 250.000 MHRZ wave freqency that they run it on is very powerful. Also a short wave * Alpha Ditrot Radio * does the rest as a filter and acts as a firewall to stop an incoming scamp virus that might infect the main fame.

If you don't believe this check this file at the library of congress in Washington DC and the file is under the sub text ( Alpha Internet Computer System ) or AICS and the file number is.

Class C File Unclassified Route File # 25452-14547-03 Pages: 520 Index: 43 By: United States Army Intelligence Washington DC Dept: Computer internet division Intro By: Gen. Colin Powell Year: 1984

If you do get a chance to read it you will never allow a computer voting system like DIEBOT to take over the old fashion way of doing it by paper ballot.

  • Vote Paper Ballot Only IN Each And Every Election *
July 28, 2010 at 5:53 p.m.
Oz said...

We need to create a path to pharmacy school for meth manufacturers too. They work hard doing a job very few people want to do. Without them, who would supply the meth users? They don't want any trouble. The economy is tough and they are just trying to make a living. Some of them are mean but most of them are probably good people. Let's don't blame them all because of the actions of few.

We would be better off paying farm workers $20 an hour. Cheap produce? I don't think so.

July 28, 2010 at 8:27 p.m.
Oz said...

Finance Reform Transparency? Ha Ha Ha Ha! Are you kidding me? More lies from the left.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/07/28/sec-says-new-finreg-law-exempts-public-disclosure/?test=latestnews

July 28, 2010 at 10:43 p.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "Finance Reform Transparency? Ha Ha Ha Ha! Are you kidding me? More lies from the left."


Nothing like dropping a totally irrelevant topic in the midst of one that is topical in nature, is there?

It does deserve a response, for one reason. Fox is the ONLY entity that is spinning that particular tenet of the financial reform law as a lack of transparency. Fox News is also lying.

Fox News has been trying to get documents from the SEC related to why the agency failed to catch the Bernard Madoff and R. Allen Stanford frauds.

Before the enactment of the new set of laws that the President signed the other day, the Commission would have had to vote to override SEC confidentiality rules to honor Fox's request. The problem is that not all investment records are public information.

Fox claims that the law exempts the SEC from disclosing records derived from "surveillance, risk assessments, or other regulatory and oversight activities." However, this only concerns documents obtained through examinations of brokers, investment advisers and periodic or targeted reviews of financial firms.

People and organizations can still use FOIA to obtain a range of SEC publicly disclosed information, such as inspector general reports, communications with Congress and the business community, and officials' calendar, salary and conflict-of-interest information.

Information from investigations into potential wrongdoing has never been obtainable through FOIA. Never.

If the SEC's investigative team decides to take a look at a hedge fund's records, they usually contact the hedge fund's broker for data on trades. That data could have been subject to FOIA under the old law, and the broker, fearing that private data would become public, often refused to hand over such data.

Under the new law, such trading data is not subject to FOIA. That data is now considered SEC internal and protected information. During future investigations, it will be seeking data and documents from a wider range of sources. Limiting FOIA will insure that the SEC won't face resistance from firms concerned that their data might leak to the public through FOIA.

To put it in a nutshell, the SEC, and rightfully so, does not want the press publishing private information regarding the identity of those who are trading of funds or stocks.

That is nobody's business.

But Fox would love nothing less than to publish that kind of private information and more, if they could.

July 29, 2010 at 1:28 a.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "We need to create a path to pharmacy school for meth manufacturers too. They work hard doing a job very few people want to do. Without them, who would supply the meth users? They don't want any trouble. The economy is tough and they are just trying to make a living. Some of them are mean but most of them are probably good people. Let's don't blame them all because of the actions of few."


Nice try, but your comparison is laughable.

The vast majority of illegal immigrants who come here do not work to bring to market illegal drugs that kill other humans. Those vast majority of illegal immigrants work to bring food products to market.

They gladly do it for compensation that most Americans laugh at, but when compared to what they can make in their own countries, it's much like one of us being compensated at a rate of $50.00 an hour.

Are you going to take up the slack for produce pickers who work for less than minimum wage? Are you even willing to pick produce for any wage in the climatic conditions that are a part of the job? Not on your best day.


"We would be better off paying farm workers $20 an hour. Cheap produce? I don't think so."


I guess you like paying $10.00 for a watermelon, or $6.00 a pound for tomatoes, or maybe $4.00 for a head of lettuce. By all means, in this economy, let's provide a path to assure that decent and nutritious food for those barely getting by, is priced completely outside of their slim budgets.

Our southern friends provide a great service to this country, and they are going to stay, whether some people like it or not.

I truly think that the funniest sight in decades, would be to film a crew of home grown Americans replacing a crew of illegal immigrants for one week, working in a produce field in Southern California.

It would eclipse Demi Moore's performance in "G.I. Jane."

July 29, 2010 at 1:51 a.m.
Sailorman said...

Al said:

I guess you like paying $10.00 for a watermelon, or $6.00 a pound for tomatoes, or maybe $4.00 for a head of lettuce."

Without getting into a discussion of our opposing views, I'll just put this out:

"If curtailing illegal alien agricultural labor caused tighter labor conditions and a 40 percent increase in wages, the increased cost to the American family would be $9 a year, or about 2.4 cents per day."

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_wagesofagworkers

July 29, 2010 at 8:26 a.m.
Oz said...

Al...We are paying for cheap produce. It's just not at the grocery store.

July 29, 2010 at 8:35 a.m.
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