published Sunday, November 7th, 2010

Just Checking

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Salsa said...

People like Nancy Pelosi are the ones who need to be checked.

November 7, 2010 at 12:19 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

No, Salsa, Clay got it right.

After 10 consecutive months of private sector job growth and the largest middle class tax cut in history, Republicans - whose policies drove the economy to the brink of another Great Depression - are given the keys to the House despite their promise to immediately add another $700 billion to the debt.

The driver should have to pass a drug test and psych evaluation, too.

November 7, 2010 at 12:37 a.m.
kousuke said...

Who is the policeman?

November 7, 2010 at 2:07 a.m.
Francis said...

yeah, that's it clay...because the electorate didn't see it your way they must be drunk.........

now it's open season on the american electorate by the left...

"what middle class tax cut"?..blackwater...

a lie.

tax breaks ....are not tax cuts.....a tax break for installing government approved windows or siding does not count as a tax cut. a tax cut is a reduction in what the government deducts from you check. like the one george bush instituted....for EVERYONE......if obama had his way he would've eliminated it for EVERYONE.....the only reason he's backtracking is because it was election time.

the middle class overwhelmingly voted against democrats on tuesday.

i guess they're all just a bunch of ingrates and too stupid to realize what a gift obama is to them, huh, blackwater?

"ten concsecutive months of private sector job growth"?

yeah..that argument/lie worked.....

another lie...the campaign is over..you libs can stop lying and trying to cover up for obama now....you lost..and lost big.

the socialist cat is out of the bag.

right....nice try...tell that to all the unemployed.....the only sector that is really adding and really profiting is the federal government.

November 7, 2010 at 2:30 a.m.
TforTX_TforTN said...

Yes Clay, we're all stupid and you progressives are all so much smarter than us hicks in the South, We get it.

November 7, 2010 at 2:42 a.m.
alprova said...

Francis wrote: "tax breaks ....are not tax cuts.....a tax break for installing government approved windows or siding does not count as a tax cut. a tax cut is a reduction in what the government deducts from you check."


Clearly, you are not a person who has ever filed a long-form tax return, and certainly not one who has ever filed a business return.

A tax cut is anything at all under the sun that can be claimed to reduce the amount of taxes you pay, be it to obtain a larger refund, or to reduce the amount of the check you write to the IRS.

You see Francis, it makes no difference if the "cut" is made at the rate tables when determining the amount of tax owed or if the rate is cut in the amounts taken out in the form of employee payroll taxes. It doesn't even matter if you are eligible to take advantage of a particular credit being offered in any tax year.

If it reduces your tax bite, it is a tax cut.

November 7, 2010 at 5:22 a.m.
alprova said...

TforTXforTN wrote: "Yes Clay, we're all stupid and you progressives are all so much smarter than us hicks in the South, We get it."


No, I don't think you do get it.

If you did get it, then some of you wishy-washy people, who obviously failed to set aside your prejudices when it comes to politics or whatever else, who failed to adopt the inquisitiveness and ability to sort fact from fiction, truth from rumor, and reality from myth, would not have rushed to vote for those who nearly derailed this nation into a swamp.

What's done is done. What will come of it remains to be seen. For the sake of this nation, I hope the Republicans step up to the plate and follow through with everything possible to earn the trust of all people and to do what is right for all people.

Do I have confidence at this point that they will? Not a chance. The infighting as a result of the insertion of declared Tea-Party candidates is going to result in some interesting power playing. Those 40 or so newbies are going to make a spectacle of themselves, probably by introducing legislation that will make more realistically thinking politicians cringe in horror.

For the record, the Democrats have a few moonbats floating around too.

It's no longer going to be a two-way discussion on the House floor. It's going to be a three-sided debate starting in January, and the press is going to have lots of fun reporting it all.

The Senate will also be providing some laughs as well. I can't wait until Rand Paul takes to the podium for the first time. He's chocked full of some of those radical ideas that will provide mucho material for the press to ponder.

November 7, 2010 at 6:48 a.m.
hambone said...

Now the truth comes out!

It wasn't Tea!

But spiked Kool-aid!

November 7, 2010 at 7:12 a.m.
moonpie said...

Francis and TforTX,

There is a sale on Gold Bond cream for your chapped hides.

Tou have failed to notice that the driver has been swerving left and right.

The American Electorate would not look drunk if it veered just one direction. But it's all over the road.

You're reading what you want to read into this cartoon. Francis, we all expect this of you. Nearly no matter the topic of the cartoon, you have only one thing on your mind: Obama. That man has a powerful hold on you!

At any rate, try a little ointment.

November 7, 2010 at 7:15 a.m.
Reardon said...

Does a man compromise his principles in the name of "bi-partisanism," or "pragmatism"?

If so, what does that make him?

November 7, 2010 at 7:30 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Ha--fun cartoon and some pretty sharp comments. [All the world's a stage and most of us want to review the play.]

Liberals, why did you lose? Because many of your actions and some of your words show that you despise ordinary people. We do not like this. For example, you do not trust us to choose light bulbs or toilet tanks for ourselves. Michelle Bachman does (light bulbs at least). Power to her, whatever her quirks.

There are bigger examples: schools and cars. Why not divide the education budget among the students and let parents choose whatever schooling they want? Parental involvement! Diversity! Accountability! Flexibility! (When I visited my homeschooling sister, she changed plans and we all took a field trip to the Statue of Liberty.) No, the liberals want to tell us where to go and make us pay for it; they don't trust us. What pride, what arrogance they show. Repent, please; pride is sin.

Liberals, why did you lose? Hypocrisy, holding us to standards you do not impose on yourselves. Our President is a good father: he sends his daughters to a private school. And he stopped a voucher program that helped ordinary D.C. parents do the same. How evil of him.

Liberals, why did you lose? Because we prefer freedom to slavery, and you don't know what freedom is. A Father Cassian, a Russian Orthodox priest in Texas, Facebooked an interesting exchange with a liberal friend of his who said she felt free in Europe because everyone agreed with her. HUH? Freedom is letting our neighbors do DIFFERENT things, things we may not agree with, things that may not work. The Nazi parades in TRIUMPH OF THE WILL exhibited freedom?? The nanny state, the babysitter government, exhibits freedom? No it does not.

alprova, your comments about the tea party as a third party contradict your comments about the voters turning back to "those who nearly derailed this nation into a swamp." Third force, or same old? If the tea party is really a new kind of Republicanism, serious about freedom, then neither Bush liberalism nor Pelosi liberalism, babysitting of left and right, offered the new hope for better government the tea party MAY offer. Remember, Jesus Christ is rather libertarian.

0

November 7, 2010 at 7:45 a.m.
moon4kat said...

As an ordinary person with liberal inclinations (as in liking "liberty"), I can say that I most certainly do not "despise ordinary people." What I despise is ignorance, and the people who don't know enough about the economy and the world to realize they are being exploited and manipulated by corporate oligarchs and their media clowns (like Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh).

November 7, 2010 at 7:54 a.m.
Francis said...

obama is the issue...he's the face of the government for the last two years... he along with pelosi and reid.....just because you're sick of hearing about it. that's too bad...obama has set the direction, obama is the leader...who else should be the focus, moonpie.....joy behar?

wrong alprova...chicken crap "tax breaks"...are not tax cuts.......it's what you take home that matters in the long run...how much you get to keep.....you take more of what someone earns, then you have more power over them. get rid of the current system..impose a flat tax..or a consumption tax. it will lesson the hold you libs have over our lives...but that's too bad.

the goal of life is not to "reduce your tax bite", but to have less taken from you to begin with........taxes dominate our lives...that's the point. thing that "reduce your tax bite" are all well and good....but imcome tax is immoral and has become confiscatory.......wow..we should all be grateful for the maze of ways we can "reduce our tax bite"...how about just allow us to keep what we earn.

"media oligarchs", moon4kat....like npr, pbs, nbc, abc, cbs, cnn, time..etc..? and piles of liberaly run newspapers..and hollywood...how about george soros....limbaugh and beck are more successful than all of the other liberal "media clowns"..and you libs are just jealous.......you must really be smarting now that even with hollywood and the liberal dominated media on your side you got your asses handed to you on tuesday.

no, moonpie...clay's cartoons are very clear...and say exactly what they say..

November 7, 2010 at 8:36 a.m.
OllieH said...

Moonpie got this dead on!

Maybe it wasn't the right turn that was the 'probable cause' for the sobriety test. Perhaps, it was the right turn, immediately after a dramatic left turn, after another right, that followed a left.

You have to admit, to have such resounding voter support for the Democrats in 2008 followed by such a dramatic swing back toward the Republicans this year, it does make the electorate look a bit fickle, if not outright erratic.

Francis is critical of everything that Clay Bennett draws, so I'm really not surprised that he/she/it would find fault. Even if the meaning of the cartoon had to be distorted to do so.

November 7, 2010 at 8:43 a.m.
fairmon said...

Both parties are drunk on power and prestige and have only one objective which is being elected or re-elected. None, including those supported by the various Tea Party groups have the wherewithal to take the action necessary to address the countries dilemma. Regardless of the party in power we will at some point hit the wall and we will continue debating who was at fault.

November 7, 2010 at 8:45 a.m.
Francis said...

obama will continue to be the focus, moonpie.....that's what he wanted...he loves it.....like mao, castro or chavez...obama wants his face to be the first thing we think of when we get up in the morning......the electorate had two years to review obama..two years to digest what his vision is and how it's affecting the country.....and last tuesday was his report card...and he failed. he failed. we, who always knew who he was, wanted him to fail to begin with.

clays cartoon...is an insult to the electorate.....obama won in 2008 because he did a better job of selling himself to the electorate....even though he was not honest about who he was and what he wanted...with the help of the media.. he deseverved to win. the electorate either believed him or gave him the ben efit of the doubt....they weren't drunk or out of control..as clay portrays them now........they wanted a change..and made a sober decision to do it. i don't blame the electorate for voting for obama in 2008......with the help of the media, and a crappy oppossing candidate, mccain...it seemed like a good idea.

the same in this election.....based on the last two years..they don't like where it's going.....

clay's cartoons are juvenile and simple democrat party propaganda..nothing more...it's dems good and g.o.p bad...nothing in between...some insight.

November 7, 2010 at 8:55 a.m.
toonfan said...

Francis wrote, "like mao, castro or chavez...obama wants his face to be the first thing we think of when we get up in the morning"


Francis- Making statements like this one only serve to undermine your credibility. Are you really as big of a crackpot as you seem to be?

November 7, 2010 at 9:16 a.m.
Clara said...

Andrew wrote,"Liberals, why did you lose? Because many of your actions and some of your words show that you despise ordinary people."

In my experience that is the most stupid, uninformed, biased statement I have ever heard. I have found that the bias comes from someone having a great deal more money than I do, left and right, but there are those with brains AND wealth who accept me as I am and welcome what I might be able to offer, besides wealth. My friends are both "Left" and "Right", "Independent" educated far beyond my ability to obtain, and some poorer and not able to even read, but with a basic awareness of right and wrong.

Stop classifying people! I and the rest of the world's population are individuals. Even you!

November 7, 2010 at 9:18 a.m.
fairmon said...

Well said Clara. All dems are not liberal nor are all pubs conservative. Tea Party participants appear to be a diverse group agreeing on some central issues. They all have a bell curve distribution of idiot to intelligent as do those we elect to make some very important and critical decisions. Both parties depend on apathy and blind party loyalty to stay in power.

November 7, 2010 at 9:42 a.m.
hambone said...

answer to toonfan's Q.

YES

November 7, 2010 at 10:09 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

Let me try the Republican debate strategy:

All conservatives are liars.

All Republicans are androids programmed to destroy America.

Jesus was a social revolutionary and an atheist.

Why does the GOP hate America?

There. That felt good, and I didn't have to waste my time researching for facts and data supporting my arguments.

Party on Tea Baggers!

November 7, 2010 at 10:36 a.m.
sd said...

Ah, toonfan--now there is a voice I wouldn't mind reading more often.

The question of the day is always, "What does the electorate want?" which might not necessarily coincide with what the electorate needs or how the electorate ultimately votes. In our recent history, it seems that voters have focused primarily on the short-term and on hot-button social issues that have very little to do with the day-to-day governance of our country. Analysts acknowledge that the desire to inflict punishment from the ballot box (anti-incumbency being a chief example) makes election results a little ambiguous. It's an over-simplification to suggest that a Democratic sweep means the voters uniformly hate Republican policy, or vice versa, and as Clay notes, voters have been doing this wiggle-dance for a while now.

The modern electorate does seem to seek safety in a divided government. This might be a direct result of having 2 major parties that are so dramatically opposed with such rigidly drawn lines.

November 7, 2010 at 10:38 a.m.
carlB said...

Does a man compromise his principles in the name of "bi-partisanism," or "pragmatism"?

If so, what does that make him? Username: Reardon | On: November 7, 2010 at 7:30 a.m.


Reply to Reardon: When we are young, do we know everything there is to know? Do we form opinions that change as we get older?
Do you consider your "principles" to be critical to your life style and are you trying to impose your "principles" onto the rest of the people who might disagree with you? Do you have any objectives for destroying this Republic or for doing what is necessary to "keep it"? If your opinions have not broadened and changed over time as to what is occurring around you and what is good for this country then probably your understanding of the "principles" that you think are so righteous, without any compromise makes it your way or not any other way. Do you consider political opinions/principles different than "religious opinions/principles?
If your are talking about your "religious opinions/principles," then these should be taken up within your place of worship.

November 7, 2010 at 10:49 a.m.
carlB said...

Yes Clay, we're all stupid and you progressives are all so much smarter than us hicks in the South, We get it. Username: TforTX_TforTN | On: November 7, 2010 at 2:42 a.m.


Reply to TforTX_TforTN: Has anybody called you "stupid"?
Being misguided in the way you voted, without thinking of why or what your objectives were and what the purpose or the results of the "Anti vote."
The key words from the "Anti's" are: Limit Obama to one term, Cut tsxes, reduce government spending, get rid of "big government," and get government out of the free enterprise sectors letting "them" have their way.

So it seems that we are supposed to have a stalemate until 2013, starting in January, 2011. What can we expect to change between now and 2013?

November 7, 2010 at 11:31 a.m.
Reardon said...

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the comment.

Allow me to be more specific:

If we were to loot one group of people for the welfare of another, and we both agree that looting is against our principles of interaction with one another, then is it ever okay -- even when "experts" tell you such shifting around of wealth is vital to our continued existence?

If 90% of people agree that such theft is okay, then is it still principled? What about the remaining 10%?

This is exactly what happened with the various bailouts we were told were absolutely necessary. Remember, the experts clamored we would drop into a second great depression, if we just didn't confiscate more wealth (raise taxes, print dollars, and issue more securities to foreign nations)?

My point is, the talking heads and our glorious leaders on both sides of the aisle continue to talk about solutions to symptoms of the underlying causes of our nation's problems.

What's the long-run benefit to taking aspirin for a headache when an anvil continuously falls on your head?

The solution is unfettered liberty and an adherence to the non-aggression principle.

Until you and everyone else understands the implications and unending benefits of freedom and honest, peaceful interactions between men, then surely we'll continue on our conquest of never-ending pragmatism, slowly chipping away at our underlying principles.

November 7, 2010 at 11:38 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

Here's what the 'Wall Street Journal' predicts with the Republican takeover of the House of Representatives (not the takeover of 'CONGRESS' as Fox intentionally lies).

WSJ was explaining what we can now look forward to:

"The Stock Market.

"Watch out for anyone who tells you 'divided government is good government.' The results are too heavily skewed by the Reagan (1981 -1986) and Clinton (1995 - 2001) booms under divided governments. A case in point: The stock market has gained 40% since the Democrats took full control in January 2009.

"The Dollar.

"Negative...if the Republicans follow through on the budget ideas in the Pledge to America. If so, we can probably expect skyrocketing federal deficits and maybe even a dollar crisis."

Democrats should take a page from the Republican playbook and just say No.

The GOP insist that Democrats heed the will of the people (however the Republicans define that will to be) if it supports their agenda, but are just as quick to ignore voters when it doesn't.

Republican hypocrisy is breathtaking.

November 7, 2010 at 12:17 p.m.
Francis said...

toonfan...you can call it crackpot if you want...your call..it's very, very mild compared to what you libs called bush/cheney..and many other people who disagree wth obama's policies.....sorry..i call it as i see it..he is a narcissist and believed when he was elected that he was here to rule, rather than to govern...no doubt about it. you libs labeled the tea party people much worse than that....clay's cartoons are one assault on the tea party after another... it must really get to you that it had such an impact.

tuesday's election was a huge blow to obama's ego...his and nancy pelosi's statements and behavior since confirms to me that they're both delusional and do not respect the message the voters have sent.

there's much more evidence to back me up on obama than there is to prove me wrong...he is what i say he is......it's all there to see.

you libs act as if criticism of obama isn't fair game...you don't like me hammering him...well, tough.....you voted for him, behaved as if he was " the one"...intelligent, thoughtful, professorial and cool..he's proven to be the exact opposite...he's nothing more than a fingerpointing narcissist who is uncomfortable with criticism and believes the first ammendment only applies to those who agree with him.

he's a wet blanket, a sourpuss, a denier of american exceptionalism.......tuesday's results back me up on that.

i'm not going to play footsie with defenders of obama and liberal policies....obama's agenda needs to dismantled.

November 7, 2010 at 12:24 p.m.
Francis said...

blackwather..you're desperate to nullify tuesday's results....it's too late....you can post until you're blue in the face.....and, by the way..nobody predicted the rise of the tea party movement when obama was elected......it essentialy was the tea party inspired movements vs obama..the nation went with the tea party.

deal with it.

November 7, 2010 at 12:37 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

Francis presents the following facts to back up us wild opinions:

"tuesday's election was a huge blow to obama's ego...his and nancy pelosi's statements and behavior since confirms to me that they're both delusional and do not respect the message the voters have sent.

there's much more evidence to back me up on obama than there is to prove me wrong...he is what i say he is......it's all there to see."

Oh wait. Francis didn't present anything but another lunatic rant based on voices in his head and imaginary events that never happened.

By the way, the use of capital letters is important. For instance, without capital letters, the following sentence would have a completely different meaning:

"Francis helped his Uncle Jack off the horse."

November 7, 2010 at 12:52 p.m.
alprova said...

AndrewLohr wrote: "alprova, your comments about the tea party as a third party contradict your comments about the voters turning back to "those who nearly derailed this nation into a swamp." Third force, or same old? If the tea party is really a new kind of Republicanism, serious about freedom, then neither Bush liberalism nor Pelosi liberalism, babysitting of left and right, offered the new hope for better government the tea party MAY offer."


I never stated that the Tea-Partiers were a third party. I stated that they have inserted themselves among the Republicans.

World War III may break out before it is over, because mainstream Republicans are not going to sit still and let any group of newbies, who swing that far to the right, ruin their second chance.

This past election may have been about many things, but what it was NOT about, was the ascension of those who call themselves "Tea-Partiers."

If it were, then far more than 32% of all those identified as having at least some financial or personal endorsement backing by the Tea-Party movement would have won.

November 7, 2010 at 1:18 p.m.
whatsthefuss said...

"From blackwater" "Watch out for anyone who tells you 'divided government is good government.' The results are too heavily skewed by the Reagan (1981 -1986) and Clinton (1995 - 2001) booms under divided governments. A case in point: The stock market has gained 40% since the Democrats took full control in January 2009.

The stock market did realize big gains but the cost to the working and retired public has also been huge. A case in point: GM and it's IPO last week. They also enjoyed a quarter of profit. Having been retirement heavy at @ 2.5 to 1, being able to shed a $51 billion shortage in retirement benefits left them positioned in a much improved financial setting. Whether the union can manage to fund benefits without running out of money is yet to be seen. GM realized they could not. The point being, corporations responsobility to the shareholder has left many past and present workers with a feeling of being abandoned and worthless to the company they worked a lifetime for. The market is over valued and when we see our government proping up the Fed themselves one wonders when our Asian friends will call in their notes. It seems they have stopped lending us money. Listen carefully for the sound of the other shoe. Chicken Little---- OUT!!!

November 7, 2010 at 1:28 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

Hey Al,

What percentage of DNC backed candidates won?

November 7, 2010 at 1:29 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

Francis, Francis, Francis, you have SO much trouble separating fact from wishful thinking. Have you even researched the Obama Middle Class tax cuts?

Back in 2008, when they passed the Stimulus Package, it included directly cutting the amount of Federal taxes withheld from paychecks. This tax cut was larger than the ones that Bush had ever created for the middle class. The American worker has been taking home MORE money than he did during the Bush administration.

As far as Limbaugh and Beck go, they are the PERFECT representatives for the Conservative right. Neither of them graduated college, they rant and rave about crazy stuff (like the day Glen Beck sat there on his show and said "I'm still waiting on that phone call" for fifteen minutes. What?) They promote a mob mentality...holler loud enough and there are those that will pay attention. Once again, the Chicken Little syndrome.

It is sad that there are those who think that just because someone is on tv, they must be telling the truth. Go look for the truth, Francis, don't let them spoon feed you sound bites that they claim is the truth. Make sure that it is the truth. You have the internet...do some research.

November 7, 2010 at 1:34 p.m.
Francis said...

your last paragraph must be about liberals..you sound just like joy behar, keith olberman, katy couric and all the other democrat party bootlickers... your thoughts and philospophy are nothing new...it's all been done before and failed..

you libs act as if you won on tuesday..amazing..since you had your asses handed to you.

typical of modern day liberals to refer to those who don't agree with them as a 'mob"...bigots, lunatics..."the great unwashed middle"...

you lost, you simply lost....you're attempts to put me down on here do not erase the fact that obama lost on tuesday..hig agenda lost...his vision lost...

most of america will back me up on what i believe.....

it's too bad most of america is too stupid to appreciate all the gems of in- sight you liberals have to offer on here, huh?

once again..there're are no obama middle class tax cuts.....only "tax breaks"...bush reduced the tax rates..which meant people take home more...they keep more of what they earn..."reducing the tax bite" is not the same...big whoop....the goal is to keep more of what you earn..not get thrown a bone by the government later...the goal is to get more of' our money in our hands sooner....

the middle class, once again, overwhelmingly voted to stop obama's agenda on tuesday........the middle class....what you're saying on here, you libs, is that they're all too stupid to appreciate obamas generousity. typcial elitism..

once again ...no capitalization..deal with it..

November 7, 2010 at 2:08 p.m.
alprova said...

Scotty wrote: "Hey Al, What percentage of DNC backed candidates won?"


100% of the Democrats who won were DNC backed.

November 7, 2010 at 2:18 p.m.
GMills said...

GOP's pledge to America:

"Government is corrupt, incompetent, and ineffective. Vote us in and we'll prove it."

November 7, 2010 at 2:22 p.m.
Francis said...

you libs's sense of elitism never ceases to astound me.

to act as if americans should go to bed at night with a smile on their faces because their "tax bite is reduced"...or there's a potential for their "tax bite to be reduced.......speaks to your lack of respect, empathy and understanding for those who work hard for theirmoney..be they poor, middle class or wealthy..you don't respect the importance of keeping the money you earn.

you libs are busy bodies, nosey, control freaks, envious, jealous and greedy.

you don't respect freedom, free speech and the ballot. if it doesn't go your way then it's the stupidy of the voter.

the voters who voted for obama in 2008..were not stupid.....the voters who voted against obama's agenda in 2010 are not stupid either....i suggest you respect their decision.

November 7, 2010 at 2:34 p.m.
alprova said...

Francis, are you restricted to your living room?

Do you have a plastic tube running from your television to a line that pierces a vein?

Did your remote control break at some point, and has your television been stuck on Fox News for the past two or three years?

There is no other reason to explain the fact that you eat, sleep, and live the crap spewed on that network, 24/7/365.

You are simply obsessed with the President. He's straight you know, and married too.

Your diatribes remind me of the kind of obsession found on Andrew Shirvell's site. He's that Michigan Assistant District Attorney who spends his days writing about a gay man who won election to the University of Michigan's gay student-assembly president.

How many times and how many ways are you going to say the same thing over and over, sometimes five or six times a day?

Give it a rest, will ya'?

November 7, 2010 at 2:41 p.m.
SCOTTYM said...

"100% of the Democrats who won were DNC backed."

Ah, yes, a typical non-answer.

I'll rephrase a bit.

You wrote, "This past election may have been about many things, but what it was NOT about, was the ascension of those who call themselves "Tea-Partiers."

If it were, then far more than 32% of all those identified as having at least some financial or personal endorsement backing by the Tea-Party movement would have won."

As you, the spinmeister seem to believe that the tea party ethos was a failure due to "only" 32% of the endorsed candidates winning their respective seats, I'm just wondering what percentage of DNC backed candidates were victorious in their respective races. Was the number less than 32%, or greater. Or do you not know, and/or not care as it serves no purpose to expose the potentially greater failure of the DNC.

Keep spewing your cherry-picked silliness. You have a few folks around here snowed, but not everyone is enthralled by your circular B.S., and you expose the condescending ignorance of yourself and those of like mind.


The far left took a drubbing last week. Of this, there is no doubt. At the local, state and federal levels, the hard left has been sent a signal. The rationalizations are revealing. The lashing out at the electorate, even more so.

Two years ago, on these very pages there were boasts about the end of the conservative movement in general, and the Republican party in particular. It doesn't seem to have panned out the way the left would have liked.

So much for librul's "socialist tsunami".

November 7, 2010 at 3:10 p.m.
moon4kat said...

It's obvious that some people get a perverse thrill out of hating. It's weird, sick, and most of us wouldn't want to live inside that kind of mind. Unfortunately, we all get spewed with their venom.

November 7, 2010 at 3:21 p.m.
LibDem said...

Reardon: It's unfair to go all reasonable on us. You're talking about a utopian world in which rational people of good will enter into a pact of non-agression. In our rare moments of rationality, we'd all like to live there. We are, however, not rational animals. You are. On a good day, I might be. But my neighbor needs a punch.

November 7, 2010 at 3:31 p.m.
hambone said...

Damn Francis, someone flush your pills down the toilet?

A big, big dose of Valium, Provac, or Antivan should be administered ASAP!!

November 7, 2010 at 4:28 p.m.
Francis said...

you liberals are pathetic...you can rant all you want and it's perfectly fine...

liberals, liberals, liberals...when will you learn to stop trying to control people.. when? trust them to make their own decisions...about life choices and what to do with their hard earned money....

you should all move to san francisco...where they take it to an extreme.. like banning happy meals...which is perfect..since you libs are always an order of fries short of a happy meal.

well put scottym...well put.

it hurts doesn't it, you libs..to hear the truth about your motives and how transparent they are....

obama didn't kill conservatism...he rejuvinated it...

your attack on the electorate..is truly revealing...

the voters have spoken..as they did in 2008..loud and clear..they chose obama....they spoke tuesday loud and clear....accept it. ..or do you hope a fed. judge, acting on obama's behalf...tosses out the election.....because it wasn't fair...whine..whine whine

November 7, 2010 at 4:54 p.m.
Francis said...

nobody whines like a lib...whine when you have it all..like the last two years..whine when you don't have it all.......whine about "the man"...and whine when you are "the man".........you're funnier than a sitcom....

"america voted for muturity" on tuesday....read peggy noonan's column after the election....

November 7, 2010 at 5:05 p.m.
wallyworld said...

I don't believe it was the "muturity" that was voted in. Welcome, Americans, to the Plutocracy!

November 7, 2010 at 6:02 p.m.
hambone said...

Lets face it folks. He's never going to post anything factual, coherent, constructive, or civil. So just ignoring him is all we can do!!

November 7, 2010 at 6:25 p.m.
Clara said...

I looked up mutuity because I thought it might be a neologism for mutuality, or an agreement among parties.

Nope! It was a typo in Francis's rapid, thoughtless typing.

Something of which I am equally guilty at times.

Slow down Francis. I'm getting so I very rapidly read your posts because they have no real substance.

Your tirades just evoked displeasure and boredom.

To make sure you understand "tirade" I include the explanation from Wikipedia;

Tirade - A tantrum is an emotional outburst of ill humor or a fit of bad temper wherein the 'higher' cognitive functions are unable to stop the emotional expression of the putative 'lower' (emotional and physical) functions. ...

I believe someone in a former post to you named you a "Poor Winner".

You certainly never dragged me from my "i I" position to yours, even with the Election win barely on your side and only in the Senate.

November 7, 2010 at 6:37 p.m.
carlB said...

it hurts doesn't it, you libs..to hear the truth about your motives and how transparent they are.... obama didn't kill conservatism...he rejuvinated it... your attack on the electorate..is truly revealing... Francis | On: November 7, 2010 at 4:54 p.m.


Reply to Francis:

You have made it perfectly clear that all you are interested in is predicting how the democrats are feeling and to irritate the Democrats while not being concerned with correcting any of the country's critical problems which need to be addressed. You've shown what your priorites are.

November 7, 2010 at 7:24 p.m.
Clara said...

OOPS! Again!

I meant only in the House!

Sorry! I am tired! Glad I caught it before the House fell down around my ears. C:-)

November 7, 2010 at 8:13 p.m.
moonpie said...

I listened to Monica Crowley today and she was bashing President Obama for promoting policies that he knew would hurt the democrat party in the midterm elections.

If nothing else, this should have evoked praise from Ms. Crowley, but no.

A president who is willing to suffer political sacrifices to do what is right, is my kind of leader.

His failure was not helping more Americans really understand what he's done for them.

The CBO estimates that 3 million jobs were saved by the financial bailout. (I wonder how a complete collapse of the banking industry would have been welcomed by the electorate? This was actually one area where Bush and Obama could agree.)

An additional 1 million jobs were saved at GM and Chrysler and when their stocks go public again, the government is actually in line to see a profit.

He passed Healthcare for the good of the people.

Corporate profits are way up since when he took office, bonuses on WallStreet are flowing again, banks are beginning to thaw the freeze on loans.

Jobs, predictably will be the slowest to return. Jobs fueled by reckless borrowing and spending that most Americans were doing will take a long time to come back.

He did these things despite the protests of people who benefit directly and indirectly.

Obama put country before politics. He paid a bit at the midterms. But, by God, there is dignity in his loss.

He put country before politics. That's my kind of president!

May he continue to do so!

November 7, 2010 at 8:33 p.m.
MountainJoe said...

I HAVE A MESSAGE ... a message from the people of Kentucky ... a message that is loud and clear and does not mince words. We've come to take our government back!

Deal with it, socialists.

November 7, 2010 at 9:27 p.m.
sd said...

Reardon, thanks for that one.

I was going to say that pragmatism is a necessity in politics, because that's the world we live in, but I'm already thinking twice.

November 7, 2010 at 9:54 p.m.
blackwater48 said...

MountainJoe declared:

"I HAVE A MESSAGE ... a message from the people of Kentucky ... a message that is loud and clear and does not mince words. We've come to take our government back!"

Back to what? Is Rand Paul going to stick to his principles and filibuster the bill to authorize raising the debt ceiling?

Do you understand the national and international implications of not enacting the legislation? Please explain, in your own words, the wisdom of such a filibuster.

I think "We've come to take our government back" is another bumper stick slogan that doesn't mean anything. Back to what? The economy LOSING hundreds of thousands of jobs every month? Wall Street on the brink of collapse? You want that back?

Back to segregation? Back to slavery? Back to robber barons? Back to the days before Unions when people had to work six or seven days a week for pauper's wages? Back to child labor?

I've been begging any of you conservatives to explain your vision of America. Please refrain from platitudes, generalities, slogans, or faith-based initiatives.

Where do you think we should be we going and where do you want to take the government back to?

I believe sane people would want to take our Country forward, so prove me crazy.

November 7, 2010 at 11:05 p.m.
SavartiTN said...

But, hambone, if I quit funnin' Francis it wouldn't be any...well...fun.

I love his absolute crazy spews. It gives me hope that maybe they will get the straight jackets out and clean up some of this ranting and raving. Those people need a rest!

November 7, 2010 at 11:56 p.m.
alprova said...

I previously wrote: "100% of the Democrats who won were DNC backed."

Scott replied: "Ah, yes, a typical non-answer."


I'm sorry. I couldn't resist spinning that one a little. I knew you'd call me on it.


"As you, the spinmeister seem to believe that the tea party ethos was a failure due to "only" 32% of the endorsed candidates winning their respective seats, I'm just wondering what percentage of DNC backed candidates were victorious in their respective races. Was the number less than 32%, or greater."


It was greater, but not by much. There were 241 races. The Democratic candidates won 96 of them. That translates to around a 40% ratio of Democratic winners.


"Or do you not know, and/or not care as it serves no purpose to expose the potentially greater failure of the DNC."


Aw c'mon Scott. Have you ever not see me rise to any challenge?


"Keep spewing your cherry-picked silliness. You have a few folks around here snowed, but not everyone is enthralled by your circular B.S., and you expose the condescending ignorance of yourself and those of like mind."


My goodness. If I didn't know better, I'd be worried that you're trying to hurt my feelings or somethin'

I love you too.

November 8, 2010 at 2:02 a.m.
alprova said...

Mountain Joe wrote: "I HAVE A MESSAGE ... a message from the people of Kentucky ... a message that is loud and clear and does not mince words. We've come to take our government back!"


Good luck with that!!!


"Deal with it, socialists."


We're dealing with it just fine. Those senior citizens who were snowed into believing that the Republicans are going to do much at all of what they are promising, who went to the polls in record numbers to give them that second chance, are going to be pretty ticked off in a couple of years, when they wake up and realize that they were snookered.

The simple fact is that the Republicans are not going to be able to deliver the goods, which is why I'm not a bit worried, nor upset about the perceived win by the Republicans.

They wanted it. Now they have it. It's all theirs. Watch and see what they do with it.

Goodness knows I will be.

November 8, 2010 at 2:16 a.m.
wallyworld said...

The biggest problem facing this country is we denigrate intelligent, critical thinkers -- calling them elitist or other unflattering names such as socialist, Kenyan, un-American even. They are becoming an endangered species in the U.S.A., whereas, punks and pundits who play with their own poop and are barely past not making messes in the house, such as francis, are a dime a dozen.

November 8, 2010 at 4:44 a.m.
alprova said...

Moonpie, I consider your post of November 7 @ 8:33 pm to be one of your finest, succinct, and most heartfelt that I have ever seen you write.

Bravo!!

November 8, 2010 at 5:23 a.m.
anniebelle said...

alprova wrote "They wanted it. Now they have it. It's all theirs. Watch and see what they do with it."

tick tock....tick tock...tick tock

November 8, 2010 at 5:46 a.m.
Francis said...

they had...they wanted it...they had it all..and they blew it....radical liberalism in charge of our government was tried an failed...

November 8, 2010 at 9:48 a.m.
acerigger said...

The "take our country back" mouth-breathers care not at all whether any meaningful legislation gets done, they're slavering at the prospect of Pres. Obama being impeached or weakened somehow. I doubt whether the Repubs can amass enough "cojones" to actually try it, but they strongly hinted at it during the campaign. we'll see.

November 8, 2010 at 10:05 a.m.
Francis said...

meaningful legsislation to you libs means how much control can you get over people's lives...."weakened"...he is weakened...and it didn't take any action on the part of the republicans to do it...he did it to himself..you lbs have the majority..you blew it..you own it.....and the people have rejected it....they went to the polls..and they decided you suck. no need for impeachment.. he'll implode on his own or his own party will take him out...hillary would easily beat him in the primaries in a couple of years.....easily.....

but i truly hope darell issa...goes after the obama administration ...especially the current, rotten ant-american and racist, holder-led justice department.

speaking of lack of "cojones".....what happened to all the bold talk of the evil bush/cheney..and how they were criminals..and would be exposed..? you libs didn't have the "cojones" to go after them...because there was nothing there..just a lot of hot air from a perpetually disgruntled group..

that's right, ace....take our country back...restore it to what it should be ...a leader in the world in- stead of the sniveling, u.n. asskissing, anti-ameri can vision obama has for it now....punishing citizens for speaking out and trying to take action against illegal aliens.....american exceptionalism and the american dream have to be restored..and that means stop viewing citizens as simply as source of revenue and going to war againt the private sector...

November 8, 2010 at 10:50 a.m.
Reardon said...

LibDem:

"It's unfair to go all reasonable on us. You're talking about a utopian world in which rational people of good will enter into a pact of non-agression. In our rare moments of rationality, we'd all like to live there. We are, however, not rational animals. You are. On a good day, I might be. But my neighbor needs a punch."

I'm assuming you're not being sarcastic, so I'll answer accordingly:

I agree that humans can be irrational and act as such regularly.

But that doesn't mean humans do not have the capacity to act rational. Unlike animals who act purely on instinct, we are different (thus have a different set of ethical standards) purely because we have free choice and can make independent decisions for or against our well-being.

How does one apply this to interaction with fellow man in the form of governance? We intrinsically have inalienable rights, of which any government given monopoly power on force, should respect entirely (thus restricted to as little as possible).

And, for those neighbors in need of a "punch," restrain punishment only until they commit a criminal act against another person or his property. Otherwise, we glorify and hold up the Bush Docrtine of Pre-emptive War, or progressively punish the most productive in our society for whatever ends we desire.

And for all you folks constantly jabbing Al and other progressives like him on this forum, remember this. You are arguing with collectivists; more specifically, you are debating people who feel they have a right to your personal property and your wealth you fairly acquired. Why? Because either they do not understand, choose not to understand, or refuse the argument for individual rights and freedom.

November 8, 2010 at 10:59 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Hoooo hooo hooo haa haa haa ... yawn ... same ol. You're obviously talented, don't you have an editorial opinion that doesn't include politics and GOP bashing. You're obviously a very disgruntled person. Is there no other issues in your life or the lives of those around you? What about crime in your pathetic city. We all know it's rampant.

November 8, 2010 at 11:02 a.m.
Francis said...

you libs don't get it ..americans do feel, and tuesday's results back it up, that this country has been commandered and we're being force fed a radical agenda based on the concept that everything in american sucked until obama and the libs took over. you overreached.....and the more you ridcule the electorate for the message they sent on tuesday...which was that they don't like the direction obama is taking us......the less respect you deserve. your attack on those who voted against obama's agenda only validates what many in this country already believe of liberals..that you're a bunch of control freaks, elitists and think the average american is too stupid to make the right choices. obama clearly thinks we're nothing if the government doesnt' direct us...that was clearly rejected last tuesday.

November 8, 2010 at 11:13 a.m.
acerigger said...

The fact that admitted war-criminals Bush & Cheney, along with their war-mongering,neocon pals haven't (yet) done the "perp-walk" is a major disappointment.Contrary to what you may believe,many lib-progs do not agree 100% with all of Pres. Obama's decisions,which was a factor in the results of the last election. They did not vote for Repubs,(hah) they just did not vote. Now then, as I said, "we'll see"

November 8, 2010 at 12:01 p.m.
alprova said...

Reardon wrote: "And for all you folks constantly jabbing Al and other progressives like him on this forum, remember this. You are arguing with collectivists; more specifically, you are debating people who feel they have a right to your personal property and your wealth you fairly acquired."


Is that a fact?

I must have missed the part where I ever made such a statement that I am entitled to anyone else's property and wealth.

I sure don't remember acquiring my own property and what little wealth that I have left, by taking it from someone else.

I guess the fact that I am working a full-time job, am running a private CPA firm on the side, and am assist in my wife's insurance firm, doesn't count at all for anything.

The checks that I write each quarter to the IRS to pay my income tax assessments don't count either, because no tax-paying person in this nation could ever be a Liberal. We are all leaches.

Does that about sum up your assessment of what I am?

I used to make a lot of money and I used to have a decent amount of money stashed for my family's future. And while I am not about to debate the issue again for the umpteenth time, the out-of-control health care system of this nation took just about all of what I had.

My wealth and property was taken from me and is now being driven around by health care providers. Some of them are living in properties that I paid a good size chunk for. Over a period of six years, I was forced to part with $486,000 and change, due to a system of health care that began shafting me the minute an idiot ran a red light and plowed into my wife head-on.

An insurer that I paid faithfully for a decade, dropped me like a dumbbell. They took that property that I forked over to them and ran like a thief in the night with it, never to be seen again.

After being forced to sell a business and some of my commercial property to further the restoration of my wife to that of a whole person again, I took a job with benefits. Three years later, I was brazenly informed that my services were no longer required because my wife's health insurance claims due to some residual complications, were too expensive.

I don't claim victim status as a general rule. Crap happens, and God in Heaven knows that I have dealt with it. But one thing I know is that this nation consists of many people who would love nothing more than to shovel dirt over the graves of people, the second that they are no longer "productive."

Not even the most thoughtless or the hardest-hearted among you, will ever make me wish what happened to my family upon yourselves, as much temporary gratification as it may give me.

Pardon me, but screw you and the self-righteous horse you ride like a Harley.

November 8, 2010 at 12:12 p.m.

It Gets Better Video Transcript Remarks of President Barack Obama Video for the “It Gets Better” Project Washington, DC

Like all of you, I was shocked and saddened by the deaths of several young people who were bullied and taunted for being gay, and who ultimately took their own lives. As a parent of two daughters, it breaks my heart. It’s something that just shouldn’t happen in this country.

We’ve got to dispel the myth that bullying is just a normal rite of passage – that it’s some inevitable part of growing up. It’s not. We have an obligation to ensure that our schools are safe forall of our kids. And to every young person out there you need to know that if you’re in trouble, there are caring adults who can help.

I don’t know what it’s like to be picked on for being gay. But I do know what it’s like to grow up feeling that sometimes you don’t belong. It’s tough. And for a lot of kids, the sense of being alone or apart – I know can just wear on you. And when you’re teased or bullied, it can seem like somehow you brought it on yourself – for being different, or for not fitting in with everybody else.

But what I want to say is this. You are not alone. You didn’t do anything wrong. You didn’t do anything to deserve being bullied. And there is a whole world waiting for you, filled with possibilities. There are people out there who love you and care about you just the way you are. And so, if you ever feel like because of bullying, because of what people are saying, that you’re getting down on yourself, you’ve got to make sure to reach out to people you trust. Whether it’s your parents, teachers, folks that you know care about you just the way you are. You’ve got to reach out to them, don’t feel like you’re in this by yourself.

The other thing you need to know is, things will get better. And more than that, with time you’re going to see that your differences are a source of pride and a source of strength. You’ll look back on the struggles you’ve faced with compassion and wisdom. And that’s not just going to serve you, but it will help you get involved and make this country a better place.

It will mean that you’ll be more likely to help fight discrimination – not just against LGBT Americans, but discrimination in all its forms. It means you’ll be more likely to understand personally and deeply why it’s so important that as adults we set an example in our own lives and that we treat everybody with respect. That we are able to see the world through other people’s eyes and stand in their shoes – that we never lose sight of what binds us together.

As a nation we’re founded on the belief that all of us are equal and each of us deserves the freedom to pursue our own version of happiness; to make the most of our talents; to speak our minds; to not fit in; most of all, to be true to ourselves. That’s the freedom that enriches all of us. That’s what America is all about. And every day, it gets better. .

November 8, 2010 at 12:42 p.m.

Subscribe.The White House Blog President Obama: It Gets Better October 21, 2010 at 11:30 PM EST

This is personal to me. When I was a young adult, I faced the jokes and taunting that too many of our youth face today, and I considered suicide as a way out. But I was fortunate. One of my co-workers recognized that I was hurting, and I soon confided in her. She cared enough to push me to seek help. She saved my life. I will always be grateful for her compassion and support – the same compassion and support that so many kids need today.

In the wake of these terrible tragedies, thousands of Americans have come together to share their stories of hope and encouragement for LGBT youth who are struggling as part of the It Gets Better Project. Their messages are simple: no matter how difficult or hopeless life may seem when you’re a young person who’s been tormented by your peers or feels like you don’t fit in: life will get better.

President Obama is committed to ending bullying, harassment and discrimination in all its forms in our schools and communities. That’s why he recorded this message.

Last year, the Departments of Education and Health and Human Services joined forces with four other departments to create a federal task force on bullying. In August 2010, the task force staged the first-ever National Bullying Summit, bringing together 150 top state, local, civic, and corporate leaders to begin mapping out a national plan to end bullying. The task force also launched a new website, www.bullyinginfo.org, which brings all the federal resources on bullying together in one place for the first time ever.

If you’re a young person who’s been bullied or harassed by your peers, or you’re a parent or teacher who knows a young person being bullied or harassed, here are a few resources that can help you:

The Trevor Project The Trevor Project is determined to end suicide among LBGTQ youth by providing resources and a nationwide, 24 hour hotline. If you are considering suicide or need help, call: 866-4-U-TREVOR (866-488-7386).

<p>BullyingInfo.org BullyingInfo.org is a project of the Interagency Working Group on Youth Programs (IWGYP) focused on providing tools and resources for youth, parents, teachers and mental health providers to prevent and address bullying.

It Gets Better Project President Obama’s video is just one of thousands of videos submitted by people across the country to inspire and encourage LGBT youth who are struggling. You can watch more videos at ItGetsBetterProject.com.

For even more information and resources visit or call:

•Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) •Matthew Shepard Foundation •Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) •National Suicide Lifeline 800-273-TALK (8255) A transcript of the President’s video is here.

Brian Bond is Deputy Director of the Office of Public Engagement Share/Bookmark See more about Civil Rights .

November 8, 2010 at 12:44 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Thank you, independent.

November 8, 2010 at 1:07 p.m.
Reardon said...

Hi Al,

I've heard your story before and lament for your losses. I respect the fact that you ran a business, made your money fairly, and provided value for your clients and employees. And I'm truly sorry the health care companies F'd you over.

But just because the health care system is broke and you had a horrible experience, shouldn't -- in the context of respecting the property and rights of others -- mean the government should the de facto health care provider.

Why don't you analyze other ways of fixing the health care system than assigning the responsibility over to government? Especially if you claim you understand individual rights and freedom? Why can't it be done without forcing anybody to do anything they don't want to do?

November 8, 2010 at 1:11 p.m.
moonpie said...

Reardon,

I'm all for universal, single payor healthcare. The current health delivery system makes about as much sense as having toll booths on every street corner and subscription fees for fire, police, park, public library and sanitation services.

No one is asking you to participate in these services, other than to pull your weight as a citizen to ensure that basic needs are met. You would be welcome not to utilize the healthcare system, just as no one forces you to use the roads, fire department or to call the police.

If we have universal healthcare, you could still purchase your own private plan, just as you could still purchase your own private security force.

Your comments remind me a great deal of people who have just discovered Ayn Rand.... who's ideas sound so good on paper. Social Darwinism is really what her and libertarians promote. Survival of the fittest.

I don't think we can shake these instincts. But they have their place and their limits. I think a purpose of civilization is to balance out those trends by having a duty to each other.

November 8, 2010 at 1:37 p.m.
eeeeeek said...

moon4kat wrote yesterday - It's obvious that some people get a perverse thrill out of hating.

Yeah.. but it's the christain thing to do...

November 8, 2010 at 1:38 p.m.
hambone said...

In Vegas and casinos elsewhere they have what they call a shill. A shill works for the house, his job is to get the other players to bet more money then the house makes more. I'm beginning to think Francis is a shill, sent to us by the TFP to stir things up.

November 8, 2010 at 1:46 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

OMG! Another leftist cartoon! How original!

Oh yeah, and the same old crowd of half witted, jealous, emotionally driven progressives arguing with the few conservatives that still have the fortitude to respond to them!

I think I can find something better to do…

November 8, 2010 at 2:04 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

"I think I can find something better to do…"

Don't let the door hit you on your arse on the way out.

November 8, 2010 at 2:17 p.m.

For the first time in my adult life... I'm proud to be a redneck, racist, homophobe, bigot, stupid, unwashed, know-nothing, middle-aged, southern, white, American male citizen.

Thanks for the reminder, Puddy.

November 8, 2010 at 3:06 p.m.
alprova said...

Reardon wrote: "I've heard your story before and lament for your losses. I respect the fact that you ran a business, made your money fairly, and provided value for your clients and employees. And I'm truly sorry the health care companies F'd you over."


Thank you, but I did not post it to receive any sympathy or lamentations. I am but one of millions in this nation who have been victimized by the health care system in this nation, among a long line of victims of other injustices that exist in this nation.


"But just because the health care system is broke and you had a horrible experience, shouldn't -- in the context of respecting the property and rights of others -- mean the government should the de facto health care provider."


I know who you are Duford, so there's no need to change your name and to revive an old subject, because I'm not about to enter into that kind of discussion.

We've been all through that "property" crapola.

I pay taxes just like you do, and the fact is that what you pay is so diluted, that you can't make a reasonable claim that your dollars are even used to fund social programs.


"Why don't you analyze other ways of fixing the health care system than assigning the responsibility over to government?"


I have, extensively. The archives are filled with my posts on the issue. You and I argued this a few months back.


"Especially if you claim you understand individual rights and freedom?"


You need to wake up to a certain reality. You have a right to breathe. You have a right to pursuit happiness. You have a right to choose a mate and to sire a sack full of children. As a United States citizen, you have the right to earn as much money as your soul desires, so long as it is earned legally.

And also as a United States citizen, you have an obligation to help fund the functions of Government, as those functions are deemed necessary, through the paying of taxes. If you disagree with being demanded to comply with that particular obligation, then stop earning money or work to change the system of taxation.


"Why can't it be done without forcing anybody to do anything they don't want to do?"


For the simple reason that any thoughts that charity is going to get the job done, has long since been replaced with abject disregard by far too many, for those who are in need, even when that need is created through no fault of their own.

I don't want anything of yours. I paid those bills without one cent of assistance whatsoever.

But this isn't about me or you. It's about all the people out there who don't have the means to pay half-million dollar medical bills, whose lives are just as precious as anyone else's.

And we're accused of being elitists?

November 8, 2010 at 4:19 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "I think I can find something better to do…"


I'm sure you can, but there are a couple of problems associated with what may find to do that you think is better.

1.) Your palm may sprout hair.

2.) Christine O'Donnell may show up at your door to begin spouting a sermon.

November 8, 2010 at 4:23 p.m.
acerigger said...

Hambone, it's been many moons ago that I outed Fran as a GOP troll. As I said,just a couple of weeks ago, it will hang aroud for a few days after the election to crow, but will crawl back under it's rock 'til time to start the Obama bashing for 2012.

November 8, 2010 at 4:54 p.m.
acerigger said...

R.I.P. BTGhost.

November 8, 2010 at 4:57 p.m.
BobMKE said...

The electorate sent a message: Slow down Read the bill before voting Listen to us Pay attention to spending Want to help non-rich people? Growth. Low tax rates are a crucial part of growth Now we will see if President Obama got the message. Does he have any idea how to bring about growth? We'll also see what message incoming Speaker of the House John Boehner heard. Will Rogers quote still applies: "We have plenty of confidence in this Country, but we are a little short of good men to place our confidence in."

November 8, 2010 at 5:10 p.m.
Francis said...

nope..ace..i'm here to stay..not going anywhere...the obama bashing, as you liberal label lovers love to say....will not end.

he's a bad guy..who has done geniune harm to this country..and tuesday's pounding was well deserved and just the beginning. we will not be transformed into european style socialist country just becaue obama says so.

you're a socialist slug, ace..same for hambone...you should slither across the sea to sweden, norway or denmark...you'll like it better there than you do here. all real americans do not want socialism...tuesday proved it.

obama, the arrogant jackass that he is....is dancing at a disco in delhi, or wherever, in total denial about what happened on tuesday..nancy pelosi is actually going to throw a party for her "accomplishments"...she will not step aside......

you have no conception, you libs...how bad obama, pelosi and liberalsim looks to most of americ right now.

the people are saying..leave us alone..let us run are own lives...let us do what we want with our money....let us keep the money we earn...lets eat what we want to eat..go where we want to go..and so on...

you libs are about control..and the american spirit is freedom.....

you haven't a snowballs chance in hell of drowning the american spirit...

only someone with a screw loose would believe obama has anything but socialism as his ultimate goal.......the people on tuesday gave obama.. that's right, obama...the finger...

and it was very, very heartening to witness that.

November 8, 2010 at 5:51 p.m.
Francis said...

you poor, fingerpointing, dour, angry, control freak liberals....

even in your zen heaven americans won't accept socialism.

November 8, 2010 at 5:59 p.m.
eeeeeek said...

Dang Francis... you get down right ornery when your husband doesn't give you any.

November 8, 2010 at 6:34 p.m.
Sailorman said...

Al

In your 4:19 post was this:

"as those functions are deemed necessary"

Aye and there's the rub.

November 8, 2010 at 6:41 p.m.
ffpete said...

Maybe the reason that the electorate is all over the place is they are looking for a party to listen to them. Neither party seems to be concerned with the people they are supposed to represent. If it isn't big business, it is some bleeding heart agenda. I personally have to be responsible with my finances. How is it our elected officials don't feel they should answer to us. Obama's comments about health care are a true tell of his opinions. If we were smart enough to understand his program, we would like it. NOT!!!! But, Bush had a god complex too. He just didn't feel the need to answer at all. So what is the solution? I guess for us to swerve back and forth until someone gets the point.

November 8, 2010 at 8:06 p.m.
alprova said...

The Wall Street Journal interviewed Rand Paul and Roy Blunt a few days ago. It seems that it didn't even take a week for Rand Paul to backtrack on a campaign promise.

Remember my posting that I am looking forward to his first speech on the Senate floor? I'm not going to be disappointed. He's planning it.

His first speech on the floor, he promises, will be on "the out-of-control deficit." His first legislative act will be to introduce a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced federal budget. "I'll force a vote on it, too -- People don't like to vote against something that's so incredibly popular."

Next on his docket are term limits. His plan is to "sunset" all regulations until approved by Congress. "Let them write all the regulations they want, they do anyway, but in two years they're gone unless they get voted on by Congress."

He plans to introduce a 'Read the Bills Act.' He wants a "one-day waiting period for every 20 pages" of a proposed bill. "People laugh, But they need smaller bills and they need time to read bills."

Backtracking on his pledge to ban earmarks, he told the WSJ they are a bad "symbol" of easy spending but that he will fight for Kentucky's share of earmarks and federal pork, as long as it's doled out transparently at the committee level and not parachuted in in the dead of night. "I will advocate for Kentucky's interests."

Roy Blunt, the newly elected Senator from Missouri, when asked how well the Republicans will get along with Tea-Partiers who have all kinds of ideas in changing Washington, replied, "I'll repeat again -- communication, so they understand. You got to keep talking to people who have these expectations so they understand what the fight is about at the moment."

"Senators Rubio and Paul are 'great' to have in Washington, but I think everything will not turn out the way they think it will."

It is indeed going to be fun to see how this all plays out.

November 8, 2010 at 8:06 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Thanks lkeithlu and alprova, for your usual charming contributions.... "Don't let the door hit you on your arse on the way out. & I'm sure you can, but there are a couple of problems associated with what may find to do that you think is better. 1.) Your palm may sprout hair. 2.) Christine O'Donnell may show up at your door to begin spouting a sermon."

What I am coming to understand here is that we are looking at every issue from completely different moral and philosophical foundations. Our paradigms make it impossible to appreciate the other’s position. The debate that needs to be had is quite a bit deeper than I think we could pull off in this format. I say that because it is too easy to hide behind the on-line anonymity and just bark off something stupid when you feel you are backed into a corner, or just ignore the point, or move on to another poster.

It seems to me that the quality of conversation here is too low to really achieve anything of consequence. For evidence all you have to do is look at my last post and your posts that I pasted in above. Pretty lame stuff!

November 8, 2010 at 8:16 p.m.
Oz said...

alprova...We are still waiting on the C-Span negotiations with drug companies too.

November 8, 2010 at 8:44 p.m.
moonpie said...

Big Ridge, I think it is big of you to acknowledge that your last post was pretty petty. All of us can get hot under the collar and resort to name calling. I'll admit the urge is pretty strong sometimes.

I disagree that this forum is not useful for actual debate. It's not as efficient as face to face, but it also gives each other time to reflect.

I try not to dismiss other's point of view out of hand. I know I can't be right all the time, so I must constantly assess if I am right on any issue. Even then, with careful thought and consideration, I will be destined to be wrong at times.

For many of us, we are left with what are our beliefs and interpretation.

I actually learn a lot from thoughtful posters like you and alprova. I don't always agree with alprova or when he resorts to name calling, but after reading hundreds of his posts, I do believe that he is sincere and is trying to make honest assessments. I believe the same about you.

I cringe whenever someone on my side resorts to name calling or insulting others. I've probably done it myself though, without even realizing it.

A few weeks ago, I was in the Atlanta Airport and met a man from Big Ridge who shared many of your sentiments. He was a good man, with whom I could soundly disagree. I liked him a lot and I hoped he was you.

While you could rightly regard me as a socialist (according to the Fox News definition) and therefore classify me as an elitist, I will confess that I don't feel very elite.

I don't want to pay more taxes, but I'm willing to do so. As a healthcare professional and researcher, I don't want to make less money. But my colleagues in the medical profession seem to be only driven politically by their bottom dollar. If being an elitist is making a personal sacrifice for others, then I am guilty.

Even though you and I have fundamental disagreements, I enjoy reading your posts. As your 8:16 post indicates, you are capable of honest reflection.

I, for one, do not think it is impossible for all people to at least respect other people's moral and philosophical foundations.

As a matter of fact, I think we share many of them. I just happen to believe that self-reliance is at once an empowering self-motivational tool is also very anti-Christian. This is understandable for athiest liberarians and Republicans like Karl Rove. To my way of thinking, true survival of the fittest, pure capitalism while perhaps ethical are positions without Christian morals. These views are most frequently touted by people who claim to be very moral. It's a curious juxtaposition.

At any rate, these are my reflections after a long day. I look forward to your posts, and to alprova's on a daily basis.

November 8, 2010 at 9:25 p.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "It seems to me that the quality of conversation here is too low to really achieve anything of consequence. For evidence all you have to do is look at my last post and your posts that I pasted in above. Pretty lame stuff!"


Wow. You have the audacity to post that whine above AFTER you posted what preceded our responses? Need I remind you what precipitated the two responses that you found to be so "low"?

How much in terms of "quality conversation" were you attempting to achieve by posting;

"Oh yeah, and the same old crowd of half witted, jealous, emotionally driven progressives arguing with the few conservatives that still have the fortitude to respond to them!"

If you can't handle a little poke when you cross a line, then maybe you might take a little time to be more considerate when you decide to refer to others with negative connotations.

I assure you Sir, that I am hardly "half-witted, jealous, or emotionally driven" when I make my points.

I deal in knowledge, facts, life experience, and undeniable truths and stand ready at all times to defend each and every point I make with substantive proof.

Disagreeing with others and failing to rise to the challenge of proving your beliefs with evidence that justifies your stances does not make you intellectually superior, nor does it make you someone that others envy on any level.

And even if people do find themselves emotional when it comes to having regard for any issue, since when is that a bad thing?

If you ask me, a big problem in this nation is the fact that so many people have turned off their emotions when it comes to others within their own species, because the only thing they seem to care about is worshiping their green God.

November 9, 2010 at 3:17 a.m.
alprova said...

Oz wrote: "alprova...We are still waiting on the C-Span negotiations with drug companies too."


Would you please expand on what you are referring to? I admit to being totally clueless on that one.

November 9, 2010 at 3:19 a.m.
rolando said...

With one notable exception on this and other uber-Progressive Bennett hate threads, I find the "goldstar award" system to work quite well...one only need review those posts with a low to zero goldstar rating to get to the meat of these threads.

Those "high achievers" only need be read on occasion because when you have read one, you have read them all. That's what the little award system means.

Low award numbers means the posts you read actually have something original in them...or at least something based on our Founders' beliefs.

So I will keep reading -- and favorably commenting -- on those posts in support of those same Founders.

Oh yes...the sole -- and I mean ONLY -- sometime high achiever, but usually mid, that I read regularly and completely on this blog is moonpie. For what that's worth. He/she is reasonable, polite, and presents a good argument without continually mouthing the party line or insulting other posters. Thanks, moonpie.

The rest of you white-hatted guys out there keep on postin'. Keep on reveling in your "low approval rate". You have a healthy number of fans here.

November 9, 2010 at 5:25 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

There you go again with the stars thing. Maybe you ought to see a doctor. (Or maybe I should-I don't see any stars)

BigRidge, to echo alprova, your snarky post was EXACTLY what you were accusing others of doing, which is why I was snarky back. I was reading this thread all along (have little to contribute because it's not an area I know much about) and your post contributed nothing.

November 9, 2010 at 7:36 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

In keeping with the spirit of these pages, clearly alprova, you are, "half-witted, jealous and emotionally driven". Otherwise you could not be duped into buying into progressive dogma.

November 9, 2010 at 7:51 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

rolando is right on the mark. Ignore the posts with a high "comment useful" rating and read the ones with a zero to half rating. Those are the only ones that have anything in them worth reading.

November 9, 2010 at 8:09 a.m.
rolando said...

lkeith, with your latest comment, you have made my point with "...to echo alprova..." LOL. Thanx

November 9, 2010 at 6 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So you disagree and think that BigRidge's comment contributed to the thread? Because he is a conservative he's allowed to be snarky but we liberals can't call him on the carpet? Or is it that conservative snarkiness has intrinsic value and liberal snarkiness doesn't? Inquiring minds want to know...

November 9, 2010 at 6:09 p.m.
Oz said...

alprova...you said it did not take a week for Rand Paul to backtrack on a campaign promise.

During the presidential campaign, Barack Obama said several times that he intended to negotiate health care reform publicly. In fact, he said, he'd televise the negotiations on C-SPAN, with all the parties sitting at a big table. That way, Americans would be more engaged in the process and insist on real change.

He was going to have doctors, nurses, drug companies, insurance companies, both parties, etc., negotiating healthcare reform on C-SPAN for us all to see but it never happened.

My point was...They all break campaign promises.

November 9, 2010 at 7:56 p.m.
rolando said...

No, lkeith, it merely means that conservatives neither need nor worry about peer approval...they got it and they know it.

The Liberal side, on the other hand, desperately needs to know they have their peers pack-mentality approval that they need and seek. Without it they remain silent and confused. That's what all the goldstars are about...peer approval for Liberal-Progressives so they can "echo" the words of other inane and irrelevant liberals.

November 9, 2010 at 8:31 p.m.
rolando said...

Ya know, the more I think about this censorship thing, the more I realize it is the fear a cartoonist holds of becoming irrelevant...perhaps even redundant.

November 9, 2010 at 8:35 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

No, I responded to BRP's snarkiness; you criticized my snarkiness and excused his. That's a double standard.

I thought it was decided that the posts that were removed were done by TFP staff when an outside link was added, not by the cartoonist. Why do you keep coming back and saying that the cartoonist is censuring?

November 9, 2010 at 9:21 p.m.
Dumbledore403 said...

What needs to be realized is there is almost as many that wants the health care bill to stay as is, as there is for it to be repealed. So health care will be staying. It is not perfect...I never will say that it is. But what we had was not working either...and something had to be done. Hard decisions will have to be made, and we are not going to like all the decisions made. But name calling is not the way either...and I for one will not do it.

November 9, 2010 at 11:05 p.m.
rolando said...

This forum abounds with "outside links", lkeith. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck....

Why else remove a post that links to a comic strip the TFP prints every Sunday? [Unless it was because it was a Jewish strip???]

November 10, 2010 at 4:18 a.m.
rolando said...

You said I disagreed and tried to put words in my mouth, lkeith. I corrected your misinterpretation. Going to red-herring this post? Lost the last one so you pursue trivialities to divert attention?

November 10, 2010 at 4:20 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I acknowledged your disagreement and called you on your hypocrisy, rolando. Not to mention your paranoia about censorship and your obsession with stars.

Your unquestioning support of Francis, (who may have a gem or two buried in all that ranting; it's hard to tell) shows how little you care about facts, evidence or good, effective communication. When "liberal" posters ranted or were otherwise ineffective (think dewey and 33M) they were called on it. You and other conservative posters here refuse to rein in Francis' psychotic ravings and lack of support for his claims. That you do so lessens your credibility. Other conservative posters (like Scotty, BobmKe, BigRidgePatriot and even Livn and AndrewLohr) are measured and precise about what they say almost all the time, which will make any of us on the left think carefully about what we say in response. You certainly don't see anyone here accusing Scotty of ranting.

Although you don't give a rat's patootie for credibility because in your mind it is black and white, my way or none, perhaps other conservative posters here will end their silence and call Francis on the carpet for his over the top posts. I will listen more to a conservative who recognizes that what posters like Francis (and dewey, and 33) do is lessen the credibility of others that agree with him.

November 10, 2010 at 7:26 a.m.
rolando said...

Ah, so you abandoned your red herring attack on me and are diverting the attack to Francis. You even call him psychotic! You then turn your unreasoning, Pelosi-like vitriol against conservatives in general for allowing him to freely speak his mind IAW the First Amendment. WOW!

Your true Progressive colors are showing -- Silence The Masses, right? LOL.

You remind me of a 12-year old off the street with your whiny ways and demands for every "I" dotted and "T" crossed just so. Adults communicate just fine without those, "DEAR".

As for "my way or none", that is a Progressive/Socialist expression. We don't use it.

The House is now taken over by those who agree with Francis in one degree or another. The Senate won't be far behind. You are the one out in the cold.

November 10, 2010 at 7:18 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I can't decide if you didn't read my post or you didn't understand it. Either way it was lost on you, rolando, dear.

November 10, 2010 at 10:06 p.m.
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