published Thursday, October 6th, 2011

The Rationale

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Momus said...

Education means nothing. You have to be able to get ratings!

"I hired Sarah Palin because she was hot and got ratings," - Roger Ailes

October 6, 2011 at 12:30 a.m.
John_Proctor said...

EXCELLENT cartoon, Clay. The point you are making is easily seen regardless of which side of the political fence is favored by a reader.

Now, how long before the howling and name calling from the humor impaired gang of regular responders starts?

Beginning the countdown in 4, 3, 2, . . .

October 6, 2011 at 12:31 a.m.

Oh, well, more partisan garbage. What did I expect? Well, off to bed. Oh, and the guy in the White House right now is not very smart. Even though you claim is. The facts say otherwise. Sorry, guys.

October 6, 2011 at 12:43 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

WISDOM IS JUST A WORD

Politicians reflect the electorate. Dumb people vote for dumb candidates.

I'll always remember Shrub as a personally charming guy who turned public speaking into contact sport. Nobody could bloody up a sentence better than George but he never claimed to be a scholar. Bush had no intellectual curiosity and bragged about leaving the oval office at 5:00 o'clock every day.

Obama charmed his way into the White House by telling voters that he could persuade republicans to support his policy agenda and make themselves politically irrelevant. Ha ha ha! How did we buy that naive load of crap? Republicans opposed the President from day one and now complain about how Washington is paralyzed in partisan politics. Obama naively continues to plead with republicans to please help him get re-elected. Wow.

Sound judgement seems to be an important character trait if you want to be President. On the other hand, just wanting to become President demonstrates a spectacular lack of judgement.

Anyway, the last two presidents haven't been burdened with sound judgement but we elected them anyway. If you don't like the direction the country has taken since Clinton left office just look in the mirror.

October 6, 2011 at 1:16 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Throw the whole bunch out including Obama and draft Elizabeth Warren by proclamation. She is a political rock star, a natural, a breath of fresh air.

Then we could all chant together...USA, USA!!

October 6, 2011 at 1:18 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

JOHN, THE ANSWER IS 12

That's how long it took for the first tea bagger to launch a mini diatribe.

Kudos, blondie! But Obama is smart. Naive, but smart. Hilary Clinton would have fought better. She is not against arm twisting, butt kicking, or back scratching

You don't get to teach constitutional law without a few smarts. You don't become editor of the Harvard Law Review on charm alone.

Bush is seriously stupid. A nice guy, very charming, the perfect president of a fraternity, but come on. Really?

How many Texas oil men can't find oil in Texas?

October 6, 2011 at 1:28 a.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

Here we go again!! Once again WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE that BO is smart as PRESIDENT??? I just don't see it. He's partisan as hell, that's for darn sure. I mean in real life, not in college where profs play favorites. How many socialists, radicals, commies and America haters can't find profs in college who won't help them along??? I'll tell you who's smart, Bob Johnson of BET. He just laid into BO for attacking the wealthy and corporations. I'll always trust a successful businessman over a corrupt politiican. The idea that BO is smart is a myth. He's an actor!

October 6, 2011 at 3:04 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Bush is, bar none, the stupidest - er, most intellectually challenged - president we have ever had. But if Perry gets elected (and unfortunately we have an electorate "intellectually challenged" enough to elect him), he easily has enough stupid genes to out-stupid Bush by a Texas mile. The poor fella is downright bonkers.

But I do hope he becomes president one day....of the United State of Texas. Hell, let him and Texas secede and take all the teabaggers with them. Happy trails, y'all!

October 6, 2011 at 4:09 a.m.
fairmon said...

Cain can is beginning to look like an accurate assessment. Republicans, democrats and the media keep ignoring him and trying to make him go away. Some brilliant political analyst say he can't be POTUS because he has not before held a political office which to me is actually a positive instead of a negative. The NRC power brokers are concerned he won't dance to their tune and are not supporting him. He doesn't attack other candidates but instead talks more about what he would do and how he would approach various problems. I wish he had the money Obama and other candidates have to run their campaigns.

October 6, 2011 at 4:48 a.m.
fairmon said...

Rickaroo said....

If Perry gets elected, and unfortunately we have an electorate "intellectually challenged" enough to elect him.

I agree, he needs to stay in Texas. Texas gave us LBJ and GWB which is more than enough from Texas. It is hard to argue with this statement about the electorate since they did elect Obama. It doesn't appear Obama's education included math, economics or business management. The intellectual brilliance some credit him with has not been evident in his cabinet selections and his leadership. 2012 may be another year where "none of the above" would prevail if included on the ballot.

October 6, 2011 at 5:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

Unfortunately ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC news and talk show host along with the NY Times and Washington post plus late night comedians have and will again decide who is elected. Watching the network and ratings of various shows may be a better way to assess who is leading in the POTUS race than all the polls that are taken.

October 6, 2011 at 5:33 a.m.
Dumbledore403 said...

To be honest I am to the point that I think we need a total purge and start from scratch. And that includes all races...Presidential and below.

October 6, 2011 at 6:12 a.m.
patriot1 said...

The pigs in Animal Farm thought of themselves as intellectually superior.....Joe Biden, that intellectual giant (in his own mind) the epitome of Orwell's story.

October 6, 2011 at 6:26 a.m.
EaTn said...

Most politicians are smart enough to know how to lie, but Rick wasn't smart enough to know when to lie. His truth on hot issues important to the Tea Party sent his ratings in a nosedive. I won't count him out yet because he has a Texas size war chest that can still make the dumbest look brilliant.

October 6, 2011 at 6:56 a.m.
GreenKepi said...

Obama, smart? Is this why he won't release his college transcripts of grades?

October 6, 2011 at 7:54 a.m.
mystyre said...

"I think we need a total purge and start from scratch" I agree

I know this late but, if you tea baggers/repubs/conservatives are ill about Obama becoming president, then you should look to your political party to present a worthy candidate to run (John McCain...for real). My vote goes Herman Cain, imho, or at least use some of his ideas. But as this cartoon suggests, who uses common sense anymore.

October 6, 2011 at 8:05 a.m.
TinaFrench said...

No Arnold the pig, the holy grail of all republicans, Ron Reagan, was an actor. Do I have to teach you everything?

October 6, 2011 at 8:34 a.m.
Robert59 said...

Republican choice is pretty much down to "dumb" Perry vs " Mormon" Romney. Rest of pack has no money which means no way to stay in race past Feb. What will southern Republicans overlook more - lack of smarts or cult image they have of Mormons?

October 6, 2011 at 8:53 a.m.
MTJohn said...

ArnoldZiffel said...I'll always trust a successful businessman over a corrupt politiican.

Therein lies the problem! In our system, corrupt politicians are the product of successful businessmen.

October 6, 2011 at 8:56 a.m.
riverman said...

I am always amazed that a cartoonist who graduated from a Directional School in Alabama can consider himself so intellectually superior to others.

As for those who think George W is dumb I would ask how many of you made it through jet fighter pilot training? Inarticulate yes, dumb no.

October 6, 2011 at 9:02 a.m.
twharr said...

Good one Clay! Also, what's up with TFP's website??

October 6, 2011 at 9:18 a.m.
MTJohn said...

riverman said...As for those who think George W is dumb I would ask how many of you made it through jet fighter pilot training? Inarticulate yes, dumb no.

And, how did he get into flight school without first completing OCS? The truth is that the draft-dodger-in-chief was well connected!

October 6, 2011 at 9:19 a.m.
ArnoldZiffel said...

So what if Reagan was an actor, Tina? BO is an actor in the same way a con-artist is an actor. I guess I should have called him a flim flam artist! Which is what he is! Reagan actually worked for a living. There's nothing you can teach me. Anyone who thinks voted for BO or still thinks he's worth a hoot can't teach me a darn thing.

October 6, 2011 at 9:19 a.m.
TinaFrench said...

Well Riverman, let's review Clay's awards. Recipient of The Pulitzer Prize for Editorial Cartooning in 2002, Bennett has earned almost every honor his profession has to offer, including the Sigma Delta Chi Award (2001), the National Journalism Award (2002), the John Fischetti Award (2001, 2005), the Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award (2007), the Overseas Press Club Award (2005, 2007), and the National Headliner Award (1999, 2000, 2004). Did you notice the Pulitzer? Your boy Bush? He graduated 894 out of 899 at the Naval Academy. Darn facts always get in the way, huh?

October 6, 2011 at 9:23 a.m.
riverman said...

Tina, I believe if you will check the record you will find find that "my boy" Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard Business School. Now about that facts thing you airhead twit.

October 6, 2011 at 9:29 a.m.
limric said...

Ebay has listed a six-foot-tall chia pet type planter shaped like Gov. Rick Perry’s head for $4,500.

Sellers description:

Rick Perry has a hole in his head. Lots of them in fact. For sale is a 6 foot terra cotta flower planter in an extraordinary likeness of Rick Perry’s head. The outline of his hair is surprisingly accurate, with holes throughout to grow lush grass, flowing ivy or flowering plants. Prayer plants would certainly be appropriate….

At a recent Tea Party rally, Rick’s larger-than-life head entertained the assemblage of 20 or 30 teabaggers who kissed his cheeks, picked his nose and admired his ivy.

The shrewd buyer of this planter can plop it in the front yard, proud to show a growing support for the presidential candidate. Or head ‘em up, move ‘em out and circle the Capitol with Rick and his chia pet like growth in the back of a pickup.

Perry recently stated at a Tea Party debate that he would be offended if somebody thought he could be bought for $5,000. He obviously hasn’t evaluated his worth as a gigantic planter. You can secure this bad boy for only $4,500.

This one-of-a-kind marvel can be picked up at the Koch Brothers secret cave.

The giant head was made along with one of George Bush by the Dairy Waste Management Fertilizer company


In other breaking news today:

Chattanooga, Tn. – A Tennessee Tea Party Chapter launched a protest today. Patterned after ‘Occupy Wall Street’ - local teabaggers organized ‘Occupy Waffle House’ after they ran out of their most valuable menu item. The news that the restaurant, part of a popular chain, would not serve waffles for the rest of the day prompted local Tea Party members to organize a lawn chair rally.

“This is socialism,” screamed a large white bearded man named Rolando as he was carried away by a group of 15 police officers. “Obama took all the waffles!”

Blondebutnotdumb, the restaurant manager, said the waffle shortage was caused by Obama’s crony capitalism. “The Solyndra deal syphoned off our batter stimulus funding.”

“It’s the principle of the matter,” said chapter president Arnoldziffle. “Besides, we’re already here and we’re hungry. We just want our waffles like the Founding Fathers guaranteed us.”

Another Teabagger from the Libertarians4Freedom delegation said the incident was part of a larger problem in American society. “I knew this would happen when the gays started asking for rights,” he said. “First they came for our marriages, then our delicious breakfast items. I want my country AND my waffles back!”

Police are trying to determine just how to remove the group of portly, hysterical protesters from the restaurant. “We might lure them out with some breakfast items we bought down the street,” said Police Chief Bobby Dodd. “If you thought they liked waffles, wait ‘till you see them around bacon. They really can’t resist the smell of bacon.”

October 6, 2011 at 9:33 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Hey CB, you got one right. The "smart" ones you guys elected in the recent election, sure aren't working out like you thought. Are they?

October 6, 2011 at 9:43 a.m.
lumpy said...

I have to agree with Arnold, I simply don't see any sign of Obama being brilliant. In fact, I find him to be dull, unimaginative and inarticulate away from the teleprompter. When he's dealt a tough question from a reporter he often comes across as angry that the question was asked.

G.W. Bush was not an articulate man, and certainly no great speaker, but I don't think that necessarily is a sign of intelligence.

Obama is simply partisan. If you agree with his idealogy, then you might think he's brilliant. To me he allows his partisanship to stand in the way of problem solving. This amazingly stupid attack on corporations and "the wealthy", the class warfare that he's fueling, is the last thing we need right now when unemployment and underemployment are through the roof.

I don't see Obama as a reasonable man at this point. It's clear he's not handling the job well. To believe there's no one out there "smarter" or more capbable than he is is foolish at this point.

October 6, 2011 at 9:55 a.m.
tderng said...

hey limric...at least at the Tea Party rallies they know why they are there.Several of the interviews with the "occupy wall street" participants had no clue whatsoever why they were there."I don't know man,we just need to bring it all down,man" was one oh so informed protesters reply.Several simply said flat out that they weren't sure why they were there.

October 6, 2011 at 9:58 a.m.
anniebelle said...

There's plenty of information out there as to what the Occupy Wall Street protestors are asking of this so-called democracy of ours that has been turned into a plutocracy. I challenge you to read their declaration. Here's a partial listing. Declaration of the Occupation of New York City As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known. They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

October 6, 2011 at 10:51 a.m.

People are still bringing up the "57" states gaffee. At least Herb Cain is this week's news!

So is my mother confusing what month I was born in! At least she didn't call me by my brother's name...this time.

But I will go with Forest Gump's mother, stupid is as stupid does, and running for President is...one of the stupidest things any person can put themselves into doing, let alone being elected. That job? They can't even afford corners in the office! That's how thankless it is!

October 6, 2011 at 11:02 a.m.
miraweb said...

There does seem to be a "race to the bottom" lately in which political candidate are getting the money to run.

Want to be a candidate?

  • Pretty face for TV? CHECK.

  • Deep pocket funders. CHECK.

  • Not likely to understand the powers of presidency well enough to make funders nervous? CHECK.

In the age of TV we think of candidates as personalities. They are too often the sock-puppets of well-connected people who are too savvy to run.

And nobody wants a smart puppet.

October 6, 2011 at 11:46 a.m.
EaTn said...

Obama has an intelligent mind but does not understand the process of manipulation and deception required of that office in dealing with today's Congress and DC's behind the scenes ventriloquists.

October 6, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Limric reported: "In other breaking news today: Chattanooga, Tn. – A Tennessee Tea Party Chapter launched a protest today. Patterned after ‘Occupy Wall Street’ - local teabaggers organized ‘Occupy Waffle House’ after they ran out of their most valuable menu item."

Bravo, Limric. Eccellentissimo.

October 6, 2011 at 12:30 p.m.
MTJohn said...

LFL - what is the basis - preferably the factual basis - on which you reached your conclusion that the members of the Occupy Wall Street movement are "marxist chickens"?

October 6, 2011 at 1 p.m.
lumpy said...

EaTn, I Think you're naive. Obama is a master of manipulation and deception. He learned his politics from Chicago's Democratic Party machine. He's finding out that the rest of the nation isn't Chicago. That's why he's angry.

You Democrats can't seem to defend Obama's so-called brilliance without putting G.W.Bush down.

The Occupy Wall Street brainiacs have no idea what they're doing. They truly are "useful idiots". They're basically being used by the Demcratic Party and the corporations that back them.

In his address today Obama has proven to be nothing more than a demagogue and a divider. He'll do anything to get reelected at this point. He's a completely negative force right now. He'd rather pit one group against another rather than sit down and put the time in to problem solve. Demonizing banks and the bus. community at a time when we need positive leadership and jobs created is the height of irresponsibility. Obama is swimming in corporate money and lives off of "the wealthy". The best thing I can say about him right now is that he's hypocrite.

October 6, 2011 at 1:36 p.m.
EaTn said...

The Occupy Wall Street movement is a mirror to the Tea Party movement but with opposite ideas. One supports the middle class and the other supports the upper class. Whether either of them survives is yet to be seen.

October 6, 2011 at 1:57 p.m.

But let me ask you something, do you believe I have a right to my health, and for you to not intrude upon it?

How can the country be free then?

October 6, 2011 at 2:25 p.m.
Livn4life said...

Considering the one who now occupies the White House in Washington DC, drawboy, this has to be your funniest one to date!

October 6, 2011 at 2:32 p.m.
Livn4life said...

And as for the Prizes won by the Drawboy, we have seen how they can be given(wink). The whole status of those programs has gone south in the past few decades. When a woman who helped saved lives of Jewish people from the Polish ghettos during the Nazi purgings is passed over for a recently elected President who has done basically nothing, I question the ones making the selection.

October 6, 2011 at 2:44 p.m.
limric said...

EaTn,

Good post.

I offer a simplified illustration,

Tea Party: Blame government for collusion with big business to screw average Americans.

OWS: Blame big business for collusion with government to screw average Americans.

Tea party bumpkins elect people who give more power to big business.

Liberals elect people who give more power to government.

Net result?

We get a powerful government that works hand in hand with even more powerful businesses to squeeze every last cent out of the common man. They've got us fighting against each other while they pick our pockets – and most don’t even realize it!

They've got to be (are) laughing.

October 6, 2011 at 2:49 p.m.

They aren't laughing. Laughing is so gauche. They're chuckling, with a side of smirk.

October 6, 2011 at 2:51 p.m.
limric said...

Hmm, happywithnewbulbs. You're probably right, but I'll go a step farther.

I think they are guffawing - or deep belly laughing so hard milk (or Dom Perignon) is coming out of their noses, and their trophy wives are peeing in their silk panties.

By the way, your name sounds like a great modern Indian name. Kind of Danceswithwolves 'ish' :-) Was that done on purpose?

October 6, 2011 at 3:03 p.m.

Not that purpose, I'd just gotten some new flower bulbs on the same day I decided to post a comment on these forums about the new light bulbs.

I just hope I'm happy with them this spring.

But a guffaw? Nah, it's not the roaring twenties, they're much too cultured for that. Maybe a titter or two, but not a real laugh.

October 6, 2011 at 3:15 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

C.B.'s Perry voter said: "Electing smart people isn't working."

Yes, if you’re searching for dumb, Perry certainly can delivered . . .

According to Wikipedia, during Perry's governorship, “Texas rose from second to first among states with the highest proportion of uninsured residents at 26% . . . and has the lowest level of access to prenatal care." ("Wow, Texas must be proud.")

Perry and the Republican-led state legislature have cut Medicaid spending and made it more difficult to enroll in the program, which currently covers one-third of Texas children. ("Guess Perry and the Republicans really showed those kids.")

"The cost of caring for uninsured Texans has been borne by those with insurance, leading to substantial rises in insurance premiums . . , and leading Texas to rank next-to-last among states in terms of affordability of health insurance." ("Go, Perry".)

"An analysis in the Los Angeles Times wrote that under Perry, "working Texans increasingly have been priced out of private healthcare while the state's safety net has withered." (Mission Accomplished?)

"The Bush administration rejected an attempt by Perry to cut Medicare benefits further, saying that there was no precedent for such limited coverage." (Poor, Perry. He tried.)

"In response, Perry's office has argued that Texas represents a model private-sector approach to health-care. His spokeswoman stated that "Texas does provide an adequate safety net to those truly in need... and many individuals simply choose not to purchase healthcare coverage." [Wikipedia-Rick Perry]

October 6, 2011 at 3:22 p.m.
acerigger said...

Anyone remember when Pres. Obama met with the ENTIRE Republican caucus at their "luncheon".answered all their questions(talking points),with no tele-promter btw,?

He made them look so foolish that Faux Newz cut off the coverage mid-way through!

If you think he's not intelligent it doesn't say much about your own "smarts".

October 6, 2011 at 3:23 p.m.
MTJohn said...

lumpy said...The Occupy Wall Street brainiacs have no idea what they're doing. They truly are "useful idiots". They're basically being used by the Demcratic Party and the corporations that back them.

I'm not convinced that the average Tea Party has any idea what that movement is about, either. Moreover, there is hard data to demonstrate how the Tea Party movement is being used by wealthy industrialists and contrary to the interests of middle class America. I fail to understand why so many folks are so adamant about working against themselves.

October 6, 2011 at 3:30 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Libertarians4Freedom said...As for the evidence, that declaration is evidence in itself: "We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments."

See? PROFIT OVER PEOPLE, to the Marxist the bourgeoisie is evil because they make more money than the proletarian, thus the Marxist seeks to steal the money, i.e. "profits."

If placing people before profit equals "marxist", when do you intend to burn your Bible?

Libertarians4Freedom said...Education, healthcare, a living wage, those are not rights, those are privileges. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights. The Bill of Rights are rights. Everything else you have to earn or your own, get from a charity, or ask a friend or family for help. That's how it's supposed to be in a free country.

Interesting. How is it possible for the average citizen to realize her/his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in this country without an education, health care or a living wage?

October 6, 2011 at 3:33 p.m.
jesse said...

all you pseudo political DEEP thinkers tell me ONE smart person who would want the job, considering the DEEP hole we are in and the gridlock between the exe.and the legi.branches.

the first disqualifier to be pres. is the fact that he is stupid enough to want the job!! palin is the smart one,making a ton of bucks with no intention of jumping into the deep end of the pool!!!

October 6, 2011 at 3:38 p.m.

Riverman, said

Tina, I believe if you will check the record you will find find that "my boy" Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard Business School. Now about that facts thing you airhead twit.

It seems you have no damn clue how how Ivy-leage colleges work!! It is hard to enter on intellectual merits, but your guy did not enter this way, as you might guess. But once you entered you cannot fail. The official policy is that 45 percent get A's, 50 percent B's and 5 percent C's. Since your guy Bush admitted to be a C student, this means he is one of the stupiest Yale students ever!

Congrats for voting for him twice and ruining the world....

October 6, 2011 at 3:43 p.m.
jesse said...

hey austrian? he did manage to graduate! what did YOU graduate from?(besides graduating from austria to the U.S.A.!!)(excuse me ,TO ALABAMA!)you must work for one o them german auto makers down there! come over here and tell us how BACKWARD we are!!

October 6, 2011 at 4:11 p.m.
fairmon said...

PROTESTERS SAY...

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

When did education become a right? When was that amendment added? I think parents and local citizens saw the value and supported educating their children. There is no place for federal involvement nor is there any valid reason for federal funding of police and fire personnel in most cities across the country. It is time for states, counties and cities to quit prostituting themselves to the federal government, stop frivolous spending for things like the local "Blur Rhino" and step up and do their job. Ask about the cost/benefit analysis of the Blue Rhino investment and get a tirade of how it is important and will help the city in it's quest for future growth. I can hear it now, some business seeking to locate here inquiring about education, police and fire, trucking and rail then saying we would like to be here but you don't have and sculptures around town like a Blue Rhino to spend our local tax dollars on.

The group I saw on TV doesn't know who the owners of those corporations they are bashing are and I would bet most couldn't read Annabelle's post.

October 6, 2011 at 4:33 p.m.

jesse, you are totally wrong in anything.. I am in academia, and no longer in the land of stupidity

October 6, 2011 at 4:33 p.m.
fairmon said...

Well said L4F. I am tired of frivolous local and state spending and cathedral building non-profit charities and churches while the government extracts money from me to support those able but unwilling to work or to improve their lot in life.

October 6, 2011 at 4:38 p.m.
onetinsoldier said...

The sign should say "RICK PARRY" You're slipping Clay

October 6, 2011 at 4:42 p.m.
jesse said...

wrong in ANYTHING?(maybe "everything") you need to explain that one to me!! also explain "the land of stupidity"? is that austria or alabama?

BTW: i was just asking!since you seem to be quick on the trigger to call other people dumb or stupid ,i thought you might clue us in on why you feel so superior to all us common folks!!

October 6, 2011 at 4:51 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Libertarians4Freedom said...---If that was the case, King Salomon would not have been so rich. Look liberal, let's not talk about the bible. Aren't you the people bitching about separation of church and state whenever a valedictorian tries to mention why she got good grades because of Jesus? Why bring it up then? Besides, the only thing the bible requires is we give 10% to charity. That's it! Jesus never said Caesar had to feed the poor and help the sick, nor did he tell the Jews of his day to occupy Jerusalem and overthrow Caesar.

L4F - separation of church and state does not preclude anyone, including elected officials, from aspiring to Christian values. I simply pointed out that the idea of putting profits ahead of people does not square with Scripture. Scripture calls us to love God with all of our heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbors as ourselves. By your definition, that is a marxist message.

October 6, 2011 at 5:09 p.m.
jesse said...

scripture ,whether islamic,christian,hindu or whatever has caused more death,destruction,misery and bloodshed than the mind can imagine!if the human race EVER gets over the idea that it's immortal and gets to the point of just trying to be decent THEN we might have a chance!every religion on the planet thinks it is "the one true way"and if you don't buy into that then you are a heathen and need to be eradicated! in some ways the human race is still in the stone age!periot!

October 6, 2011 at 5:28 p.m.
TinaFrench said...

That's how you reply? By calling me junior high school names? I win, you lose. Bubye

October 6, 2011 at 5:40 p.m.
hambone said...

All we get on this forum any more are the same old second hand right wing-nut talking points.

I could get the same garbage first hand if I wanted to watch FAUX.

October 6, 2011 at 5:50 p.m.
MTJohn said...

jesse said...scripture ,whether islamic,christian,hindu or whatever has caused more death,destruction,misery and bloodshed than the mind can imagine!if the human race EVER

Not quite true, Jesse. The death, destruction, misery and bloodshed to which refer has been caused by PEOPLE - often people who have misused the Scriptures of the faith that they claim to profess.

October 6, 2011 at 6:14 p.m.
fairmon said...

a-in-a

Being in academia is good and increases the probability of having more knowledge but often does not increase intelligence nor does making good grades equal intelligence. It seems many in academia credit themselves with more intelligence than they have, many are funny little pompous asses with their pseudo sophistication and chit chat about this and that. Many in academia spend a life time gathering information and spouting their own philosophy to impress others. The proof of intelligence is when knowledge is effectively used in the real world. Those that can do, those that can't teach. If you are in the academia world be careful you don't fall into the trap of an over inflated ego where you judge others based on whether they agree with you or not.

Your post suggest you may need to attend a "How to win friend and influence people course".

October 6, 2011 at 6:21 p.m.
tderng said...

harp3339 said...If you are in the academia world be careful you don't fall into the trap of an over inflated ego where you judge others based on whether they agree with you or not.

too late harp3339.

October 6, 2011 at 6:59 p.m.

Education as a right? That's been acknowledged for quite a few decades, as one of the most important roles of the state for the facilitation of a republican form of government. In Tennessee, for example, it was covered in the 1835 State Constitution.

October 6, 2011 at 7:05 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Conservatives have been unable to field a serious candidate. They are all retread also rans and brittle wack jobs. It's comical. If the economy takes a bit of a turn in the interim this election is over. Over. Then the treasonous conservatives will have to hope their country flounders for another four years.

October 6, 2011 at 8:03 p.m.
jesse said...

ok mtjohn,it was people! BUT what was their motivation?

the "SCRIPTURES" in one form or another! religion of whatever form is the bane of mankind! it's the last tie to the primitive search by man to explain his sense of BEING!of why.

October 6, 2011 at 8:13 p.m.
tderng said...

the democrats fielded a serious candidate in 2008,unfortunately Obama was elected instead.

October 6, 2011 at 8:19 p.m.
jesse said...

hey hambone since all of us rt.wingnuts are boring you to death do us a favor and go somewhere else to get your lib,fix! i garontee you you won't be missed!!

October 6, 2011 at 8:21 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Blackwater48 said: “Politicians reflect their electorate.”

I’m more inclined to think that politicians reflect their campaign contributors more han the electorate, Blackwater48. For example, Texas has some of the smoggiest metropolitan areas in the country – it’s really bad. The American Lung Association says running in a heavily polluted city like Houston is so bad that it’s equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Do you think you really believe the electorate in a city like Houston that carries the title for the highest single measurement of ozone pollution in the country is pleased about Rick Perry’s wars with the EPA? I find this really hard to believe.

Governor Rick Perry’s politics, however, do reflect the political views of some of his big corporate campaign donors like the dirty Koch Brothers who always seem to be leading the charge to block EPA's rules for greenhouse gas emissions. Indeed, Rick Perry’s campaign contributors are about as low as you can go:

"In 1999, a Texas jury imposed a $296 million verdict on a Koch pipeline unit -- the largest compensatory damages judgment in a wrongful death case against a corporation in U.S. history. The jury found that the company’s negligence had led to a butane pipeline rupture that fueled an explosion that killed two teenagers.

Former Koch employees in the U.S. and Europe have testified or told investigators that they’ve witnessed wrongdoing by the company or have been asked by Koch managers to take what they saw as improper actions.

Sally Barnes-Soliz, who’s now an investigator for the State Department of Labor and Industries in Washington, says that when she worked for Koch, her bosses and a company lawyer at the Koch refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas, asked her to falsify data for a report to the state on uncontrolled emissions of benzene, a known cause of cancer. Barnes-Soliz, who testified to a federal grand jury, says she refused to alter the numbers.

“They didn’t know what to do with me,” she says. “They were really kind of baffled that I had ethics.”

Koch’s refinery unit pleaded guilty in 2001 to a federal felony charge of lying to regulators and paid $20 million in fines and penalties.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html

October 6, 2011 at 8:24 p.m.
MTJohn said...

jesse said...ok mtjohn,it was people! BUT what was their motivation?

the "SCRIPTURES" in one form or another! religion of whatever form is the bane of mankind! it's the last tie to the primitive search by man to explain his sense of BEING!of why.

jesse said...ok mtjohn,it was people! BUT what was their motivation?

Selfishness. That, by the way is the same motivation, without or without an appeal to sacred writings.

jesse said...religion of whatever form is the bane of mankind! it's the last tie to the primitive search by man to explain his sense of BEING!of why.

You might be right. At the same time, however, I doubt that you have a better explanation for man's sense of being than the answer offered by the Christian Scriptures, i.e. to love God and to love our fellow humans. And, please note that you cannot get from that sense of purpose to the kinds of atrocities that you suggest have been motivated by Scripture.

October 6, 2011 at 8:50 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Being in academia is good and increases the probability of having more knowledge but often does not increase intelligence nor does making good grades equal intelligence. It seems many in academia credit themselves with more intelligence than they have, many are funny little pompous asses with their pseudo sophistication and chit chat about this and that. Many in academia spend a life time gathering information and spouting their own philosophy to impress others.

Although I have met academics who were "head in the clouds" and out of touch, most that I know are practical, curious, multi-talented and well rounded. Many I know spend their life learning and gathering knowledge but few spout philosophy of any kind.

I know I've said this before, but the problem is stereotyping. You meet one spacey, ultra-liberal academic boor and you assume they are all alike. If your impression of academia is based on Mallard Fillmore and unpleasant memories of teachers you have had, well, it's understandable. There are many forms of intelligence, and some of the brightest people I know are not the ones that are "most educated". But I resent politicians who reject all forms of academia and paint all academics with the same brush. I resent the Sarah Palins of the world that roll their eyes when they find out they are talking to a teacher, and take the position that somehow teachers know nothing about the world except what happens in their classrooms. WE are people; most of us hold second jobs, many operate businesses on the side, we pay taxes, raise children, repair our houses, vote, run for public office, volunteer and care for our aging parents.

I don't mind if Perry wasn't good at organic chemistry. I do mind people considering him more qualified BECAUSE he wasn't good at organic chemistry. He probably was not in a place in his life to be a student. Big deal; he was not the first. I'm sure he's not stupid, so I don't want him to embrace stupidity to attract votes.

October 6, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.
jesse said...

hey john,its the sense of BEING RIGHT! the same thing you see going on in this forum!if I AM right then everyone who disagrees w/me is wrong and therefore MUST be looked down upon and punished! if, in my heart i belive i have the true way then i must either impose upon them the right way or denigrate them to the point where they are irrelevant!in other words "its my way or no way!" this is the way of all "true belivers"of whatever dogma!

October 6, 2011 at 9:12 p.m.

Similarly there are problems with people who lack confidence in themselves, who try to give everybody a fair hearing, and don't realize that not everybody has something to say that is worth any attention whatsoever.

There's a balance between confidence that you're right, and an uncertainty that actually hinders you from accomplishment.

October 6, 2011 at 9:31 p.m.
hambone said...

jesse, thank you for proving my point!

October 6, 2011 at 9:37 p.m.
onetinsoldier said...

God is an oxymoron Believers are just plain morons. Being a good human being is strictly a survival instinct of the herd. Religion is just crack to keep people in a herd.

October 6, 2011 at 9:40 p.m.
MTJohn said...

jesse said...if I AM right then everyone who disagrees w/me is wrong and therefore MUST be looked down upon and punished! if, in my heart i belive i have the true way then i must either impose upon them the right way or denigrate them to the point where they are irrelevant!

Why? You certainly do not need religion to think that selfishly.

October 6, 2011 at 10:27 p.m.
onetinsoldier said...

Believing there is a god has no foundation. Believing there isn't a god has no foundation. We are all really agnostic.

October 6, 2011 at 11:01 p.m.
fairmon said...

Obama and the republican candidates are all reasonably intelligent people relatively speaking but their intelligence doesn't include the right areas of expertise and certainly not how business systems work and the difficulty of managing a successful business that grows and keeps people employed.

Obama was a community organizer, taught the constitution on an ad-hoc basis which requires no special training, a lawyer and since a politician. His staff are not good organizers and forward looking people that will improve government efficiency and effectiveness. There is no incentive for department heads to reduce department size or budget since size means power, influence and job security.

Gingrich is not electable but is the most politically and constitutionally knowledgeable. And, was speaker of the house when we last had a balanced budget when he and Clinton worked together to accomplish that. Herman Cain could and would do well but the NRP is afraid of him, he may not play politics with them. He may, as one commentator criticized, try to do things like benefit/cost analysis and hire efficiency experts to study government jobs for necessity and value. He went on to say he may try to use a business approach and in government that just won't work. His criticism and reasons for not supporting Cain sure got me to more seriously checking him out. His web site is impressive but without NRP support and major grass roots financial support he doesn't have the funding to win the primary and the election.

We will most likely again elect the most photogenic, best funded and best motivational speaker even if there is no substance to the rhetoric and they are willing to make impossible promises.

October 7, 2011 at midnight
fairmon said...

Do you include people like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, athletes, movie producers and stars on your list of the rich and greedy?

If you loan or invest with someone $100,000 dollars that you may lose some or all of would your asking and expecting to be paid yearly 4-6% interest on your money make you rich and greedy? Should you have to pay income tax on that money when you could have loaned it to a municipality (city or state) and received tax exempt interest.

Give Wall St. to the protesters and see what they do with it. Who specifically are they asking to do what? Du-Bai loves it, they want Wall St. and the worlds financial centers to locare there and are building in a way they believe it will happen.

October 7, 2011 at 12:28 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Does Bennett have a single original idea rolling around in that empty goard he tries to pass off as a head? Conservative=dumb Leftist=Brilliant. How boring and predictable.

We have a complete dolt in the Whitehouse but since he promotes the philosophy of Karl Marx parasites like The Wart think he is a genius.

October 7, 2011 at 9:31 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Libertarians4Freedom said...---You need to study about the way Jesus lived instead of assuming that he was a Marxist.

I have and I have not concluded that Jesus was a marxist. I have concluded that Jesus placed people ahead of profits. You defined marxism as a system that places people ahead of profits. Thus, I also included that your definition of marxism (not my definition of marxism) would include Jesus.

Scripture also teaches that the love of money is the root of all evil. A system that places profits ahead of people celebrates the love of money. If you are going to stand on the principle that profits are more important than people, you have another reason to burn your Bible.

October 7, 2011 at 9:47 a.m.
dude_abides said...

I am thankful the Lord provided me with this avatar. I wonder if Rikki spits out the mustard?

October 7, 2011 at 10:53 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Libertarians4Freedom said: “Loving our neighbors as ourselves means taxing everyone the same. If you want Warren Buffet to pay more taxes than you, then you certainly do not love him, but you hate him. And even a self-hating commie like Buffet deserves to be reminded that he is free to pay more taxes if he wishes, the IRS form allows that."

And the preferential tax breaks and special treatment that our politicians have orchestrated to benefit wealthy people like Warren Buffett, L4F? I see that you have conveniently ignored Buffett's bottom line issue. Why should the income that an individual earns from his/her wages be taxed at a higher rate than the income an individual earns from his/her financial investments? When it comes to taxes, income should be income. This is the issue Buffett was addressing in his op-ed piece:

“OUR leaders have asked for “shared sacrifice.” But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It’s nice to have friends in high places.

Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimesbusiness&seid=auto

October 7, 2011 at 11:09 a.m.
hambone said...

has everyone noticed how L4F posts between 8am. and 5pm. like it's his job?

October 7, 2011 at 11:52 a.m.
hambone said...

A white collar worker posting on company time, on a company computer and a company internet connection is still stealing!! L4F, you yourself have railed against public employees doing the same thing.

October 7, 2011 at 2:10 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Libertarians4Freedom said: “The same can be said of the 45% of Americans who don't pay any income taxes?”

Exactly what segment of the population are you referencing, L4F? Are you referencing billionaires who have managed through tax loopholes to avoid paying any tax on their personal income? Are you referencing America’s poor whose personal wages are so low they do not pass the poverty level threshold? Are you referencing individuals who are unemployed?

Libertarians4Freedom said: "Yes, and he lied. He failed to mention that he pays himself in DIVIDENDS while paying his employees a SALARY.

Your statement clearly shows that it is you who is being disingenuous, L4F. Buffett’s bottom line issue was rather clear. Individuals who earn their income by making money with money pay a lower tax rate than individuals who earn their money from a job. Buffet goes on to point out preferential changes that "a billionaire friendly Congress" has set up through the years and offers a solution that would help to correct the problem:

“Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. . .

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1&seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimesbusiness&pagewanted=print

October 7, 2011 at 2:36 p.m.

Jesse,

to answer your question, what I consider as the land of stupidity, Alabama or Austria.

In one of these countries education (and healthcare) is considered as a right in the other bearing a gun is considered a right (ignoring as most of you do, that the second amendment is a conditional sentence)...

Now guess which one is more educated and has higher standards in basically anything...

And let me also tell you as scientist I lived in many countries in the world but Alabama and the south in general was an all time low in intellectual conversations. My republican neighbors horizon ended with football and some bible stories only braindead or little kids can take serious....

October 7, 2011 at 3:35 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Libertarians4Freedom said: "Mountain, why not talk about the billion dollars Berkshire Hathaway refuses to pay the IRS? They owe that money yet their lawyers keep fighting. If Warren wants to pay more taxes, why do that?"

Because this personal income tax issue is much bigger than Berkshire Hathaway, L4F. The issue that we’ve been discussing is about the preferential treatment that the wealthy in this country are currently receiving when it comes to taxing their personal income. If one man reports that 60 percent of his income comes from his capital gains earnings and another man reports that 60 percent his income comes wage earnings, the taxation rate should be approached fairly and in the same way for both men, but it isn’t.

October 7, 2011 at 3:39 p.m.
fairmon said...

MNTL....

I depend on dividends to supplement my income. The money I invest is used by the company to run and hopefully grow the business. Investing money in stocks is similar to loaning it, is at risk and I can lose some or all of it. A 3 to 6% return is not excessive for a loan and money that is at risk. Would you loan money at a lower rate?

In 2008 I had a big loss but can only deduct $3,00 per year for the next 20 years while paying taxes on all gains during the following years. Is that fair? Are you willing to allow losses to be equal to gains in the following year until recovered?

I earned and paid taxes on the money I put at risk or essentially loan to different companies and you say I should pay a higher tax on dividends? That is ridiculous. If you want to abolish all the deductions, tax reductions, subsidies, grants etc. congress favors their wealthy contributors with that is no problem. But, to put dividends and all capital gains in the same category is not fair or reasonable. Hedge fund managers income should not be treated as capital gains along with a few others congress has quietly passed. Doing what you insist on would dry up the capital markets, drive more money over seas and wreck the economy. That is why I call Obama an economic idiot. Did you know history finds that most economist got it wrong and those writing articles that get you so excited about taxing some people more are even more often wrong.

You want hear warren Buffet suggesting the 24 hour security at his home, the use of a company car, access to the corporate jet and other perks being treated as normal income. He really doesn't need the $100,000 per year salary. A lot of his personal wealth is invested in municipal bonds which are tax exempt. Buffet is an old man that likes attention and is trying to get into heaven. If he wants to pay more taxes why did he shield the billions he gave to the Bill Gates foundation from being taxed as part of his estate?

October 7, 2011 at 8:24 p.m.
fairmon said...

mntl...

Just how obligated do you think I and others are to contribute to the welfare and upkeep of some trifling lazy boozing drug using ignoramus? How obligated are we to keep increasing the welfare moms income when it is her reason for having more kids? Why is it a federal program instead of a local and state program? Why do you think the federal government can better afford all the welfare programs? Have you seen the list? You can tax the bee jeebies out of the wealthy and confiscate more from all of us and not make up the 1.4 trillion and growing annual budget short fall without even thinking about reducing the debt and the 200 billion plus per year interest. It is simple math that no one wants to hear. Remember these exchanges when the stuff hits the fan around the end of 2012 regardless of who is elected.

October 7, 2011 at 8:36 p.m.
rick1 said...

Harp: Very well said in your 8:24pm post. Here is an article that supports what you stated in your post and as other informative informtion.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/CapitalGainsTaxes.html

October 7, 2011 at 8:51 p.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said...In 2008 I had a big loss but can only deduct $3,00 per year for the next 20 years while paying taxes on all gains during the following years. Is that fair? Are you willing to allow losses to be equal to gains in the following year until recovered?

Patently false! And, if you calculated your 2009 and 2010 tax returns that way, I'd advise that you file amended returns ASAP! The capital loss - including all of the carryover capital loss - is subtracted from the capital gain before calculating the capital gains tax. The capital loss is limited to $3,000/year only after you have done that math. You don't pay any capital gains tax in the year in which you have a capital loss and all of that loss may be carried forward indefinitely.

Also, note that, since the Bush tax cuts, you pay taxes on interest, dividends and capital gains at a reduce rate relative to the rate you pay on earned income.

October 7, 2011 at 9:03 p.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said...Just how obligated do you think I and others are to contribute to the welfare and upkeep of some trifling lazy boozing drug using ignoramus? How obligated are we to keep increasing the welfare moms income when it is her reason for having more kids?

Harp - please explain how you determined that these are fair and accurate characterizations of people who receive public assistance.

October 7, 2011 at 9:40 p.m.
rolando said...

I absolutely cannot wait for Bennett to start attacking Herman Cain..the current front-runner Republican candidate.

Really. I cannot wait.

What a quandary...attacking a black man just because he is a Republican...LOL. Serves him right. What goes around comes around.

[Perry is currently #5 and is so yesterday.]

October 7, 2011 at 10:50 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “That is ridiculous. . . to put dividends and all capital gains in the same category is not fair or reasonable.

No, it’s not ridiculous, Harp3339. Personal Income is personal income. In 1986, during the Reagan era, income from investments and salaries were taxed at the same rate – 28% percent. Indeed, you may think you deserve preferential treatment and are entitled to pay a lower tax rate on the money you earn from your investments than someone whose income is derived from wages, but some of us disagree. Clearly, it is this kind of preferential treatment that has created the wide economic gap between the wealthy and the rest of the country.

Unfortunately, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have shown a willingness to put an issue like capital gains on the table. In fact, I note that Mr. Corporation, Mitt Romney, is promising to reduce the income tax for investors even more, which means the richest Americans will continue to reap huge benefits from their preferential low tax rates, middle-class Americans who depend on wages and salaries will continue to pay higher tax rates, and the economic gap between the wealthy and the rest of the country will continue to widen:

“Most Americans depend on wages and salaries for their income, which is subject to a graduated tax so the big earners pay higher percentages. The capital gains tax turns that idea on its head, capping the rate at 15 percent for long-term investments. As a result, anyone making more than $34,500 a year in wages and salary is taxed at a higher rate than a billionaire is taxed on untold millions in capital gains.

While it’s true that many middle-class Americans own stocks or bonds, they tend to stash them in tax-sheltered retirement accounts, where the capital gains rate does not apply. By contrast, the richest Americans reap huge benefits. Over the past 20 years, more than 80 percent of the capital gains income realized in the United States has gone to 5 percent of the people; about half of all the capital gains have gone to the wealthiest 0.1 percent.

The way you get rich in this world is not by working hard,” said Marty Sullivan, an economist and a contributing editor to Tax Analysts. “It’s by owning large amounts of assets and having those things appreciate.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/capital-gains-tax-rates-benefiting-wealthy-are-protected-by-both-parties/2011/09/06/gIQAdJmSLK_story.html

October 7, 2011 at 11:03 p.m.
fairmon said...

mntl....

Yes it ridiculous and proves you have no idea how important it is that people put money at risk to provide the capital that enables people a means of making an income which means a place to work. To be a long term capital gain an investment has to be held more than one year. Dividends are paid on money that is at risk and needed by publicly owned businesses to operate. You didn't address the issue so apparently you think losses should not be fully credited but gains should be taxed?

What would you propose for those that shared in the total losses of over a trillion dollars in 2008 but can only claim $3,000 of those losses per year against future gains? I had a loss of $60,000 that year and can only reduce any future buy and sale capital gains by $3,000 per year. The $3,000 loss credit does not apply to 2-4% dividends paid on money at risk. In other words if I have a $60,000 long term investment gain (say 5 years) you are proposing I pay ordinary income as though it was all earned in one year reduced only by $3,000 of the prior $60,000 loss, what the hell is fair about that? What happens if those people willing to risk their money decide it isn't worth the risk and invest it in tax exempt municipal bonds and other no risk investments since both are taxed at the same rate? It is with good reason the majority of democrats and republicans that have some understanding of what keeps the economy going aren't anxious to do something that will have even greater negative impact on the economy.

You are advocating that if I receive a dividend on an investment that decreases in value that I pay taxes on the dividends as ordinary income although the value value of my investment decreased by 20%, which many have done in recent years. You are advocating if I sale and have a loss of principle greater than dividends received I can't claim the loss against the dividends or other income. Yes, that is ridiculous and unfair.

October 8, 2011 at 1:23 a.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said...You are advocating that if I receive a dividend on an investment that decreases in value that I pay taxes on the dividends as ordinary income although the value value of my investment decreased by 20%, which many have done in recent years.

Phony math/phony logic! You have not lost anything until you choose to sell the devalued asset. And, if you make that choice, you can deduct the loss from your income prior to calculating your tax obligation. And, as a footnote, you chose to make the investment. You chose to take the risk. Where does personal responsibility fit into the equation? Why should the tax codes be used to buffer the consequences of your decisions?

October 8, 2011 at 8:47 a.m.
mountainlaurel said...

MTJohn said to Harp3339: "Phony math/phony logic! . . . And, as a footnote, you chose to make the investment. . . Why should the tax codes be used to buffer the consequences of your decisions?"

You've stated it well, MTJohn. I like concise and to the point.

October 8, 2011 at 9:23 a.m.
fairmon said...

I think you either misread or I communicated poorly. In 2008 I did take the loss had a capital gains loss reported on 2008 tax filing. I can only claim $3,000 per year and carry forward the remaining loss until eventually the $60,000 is reduced to zero assuming no additional losses. The point is why can it not be used to off set all gains until there is no loss if the taxes are to be treated as ordinary income? The fact is there should be no tax on capital gains.

October 8, 2011 at 11:43 a.m.
fairmon said...

MTJohn...

Do you know a CPA that will deduct captital gains losses from all income before calculating taxes?

October 8, 2011 at 11:49 a.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said...Do you know a CPA that will deduct captital gains losses from all income before calculating taxes?

You are correct - either I misunderstood or you mis-communicated. My point, simply, is that you are allowed to carryover the entire loss. You are only limited to a $3,000/year loss if the sum of your current year gain/loss and the carryover loss exceeds $3,000 in the second year, etc.

harp3339 said...> The point is why can it not be used to off set all gains until there is no loss if the taxes are to be treated as ordinary income? The fact is there should be no tax on capital gains.

If I understand your post correctly, in the context of other posts of yours that I have read, it sounds as though you do not think government should subsidize the unfortunate among us. But, it should subsidize those of have sufficient resources to put some of their money at risk in the financial markets.

I think one point on which you and I might agree is that we need a simpler tax code. However, I suspect that we might not agree on the schedule of tax rates within a simplified code.

October 8, 2011 at 12:34 p.m.
jesse said...

hey austrian in ala.! i feel your pain man!your one of the elite stuck in alabama where, if you ain't into football,coon huntin,bass fishin or frog giggin they ain't much you can relate to! if it was me and i was THAT unhappy i would pack my trash and take my ass back to austria!periot.you only get to do this once so you gotta make the most of it!!

October 8, 2011 at 12:55 p.m.

mrasstriun a la Bama furgit to tel us bout thos crazi asstriunz hoo dun lok ther kidz an wimmin in da baysmints fur yers an yers He dun fergit ta tel us bout dem dum soshilist idees thets roonin ole U-rope. mr isn her in da US uf A cos hes makin awl det CASh$$$ hey hey why don ya tel yur naybores in a la Bama howsn ya hayte dem an owr contrie an awl! tel dat naybore wit da beeg GUN boy! hee he

October 9, 2011 at 2:19 a.m.

The Occupy Wall Street movement is a mirror to the Tea Party movement but with opposite ideas. One supports the middle class and the other supports the upper class. Whether either of them survives is yet to be seen. (mr Eetin)

won (da tee partee) saports demself cos dey EES da midul clas da otter (da lazee reech kidz) saports no-won ther ma an pa saport dem an bys ther clos frum thos deeziners likey Goochie an awl looky thos purty shoos an wahches an joolry theys gotton looky thos iPeds an blaknburris theys gotton! why i no reech an wee hav owlny por clos an wahches an sech, no Goochies likey da hippycrits!

October 9, 2011 at 2:29 a.m.
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