published Saturday, August 11th, 2012

Treason accusation is irresponsible and other letters to the editors

Treason accusation is irresponsible

Re: David Cook's column (Aug. 8). For every person publicizing armed attendance at a film, thousands more quietly and lawfully carry weapons they are competent to use. You decry their having weapons in churches, schools and theaters. One such citizen could have prevented or minimized the loss of lives at Virginia Tech, both mass shootings in Colorado, and the slaughter of helpless Amish girls in Pennsylvania.

I am unwilling to gamble that your statistics will protect my family. Nor can police, who investigate and prosecute assailants after the fact. That my weapon makes my family or others threatened with death safe is not, as you charge, a lie.

Angels of our better nature might survive in a utopia you apparently yearn for. That world does not exist. The lawless will always have deadly weapons, even if their ownership were unconditionally outlawed. Most lawfully armed citizens understand this and realize that we must try to live peacefully, while responding swiftly to deadly threats if we must.

The NRA is not perfect, but it serves as a strong voice supporting citizens' rights to protect themselves, especially when gun-control forces erupt after every senseless tragedy. To accuse it of treason is irresponsible in the extreme.


You can shop where you want

In response to critics of Chick-fil-A, I am proud to support a company that supports God's plan for humanity. The response of employees by Friday protests (Aug. 3) prove that the company supports the biblical standards of love and Christian service.

The corporation supports numerous programs that reach many deserving groups. I patronize Chick-fil-A because of their respect for God and family, for the great food and service and because it is my choice. I don't patronize businesses which conflict with my personal beliefs. Shop where you want and let others do the same.

I think time could be better spent finding ways to help children and young adults to find safety and success in life than trying to interfere with the individual rights of a very respected corporation. The silent majority spoke on Aug. 1, and to God be the glory!

JUDY PIKE, Flat Rock, Ala.

Primary is party nominating step

A letter writer (Aug. 7) who moved here from out of state could not understand why she was asked to declare a party preference. What she participated in was not really an "election," but a party nominating process. In some states they use a caucus whereby small groups meet and by show of hands or voice vote select a nominee. The real election comes in November when she will be allowed to vote for those selected in the primary plus the independents who are running. So unless she selects a party affiliation in the future she will not be allowed to participate in the primary nominating process in this state or most other states.


Let legal system work in Hill case

Whoa! Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Neither I nor anyone else I know who has worked with Dr. Hal Hill believes him to be capable of the actions he has been accused of in the press. A few short months ago, this community had Gail Palmgren's husband all but convicted of murdering his wife. Have we not learned anything? Back off and let the legal system get to the bottom of this mess before trashing someone's reputation based on rumor and innuendo.

DR. GARY LANHAM, Signal Mountain

Cook, newspaper are courageous

Re: David Cook's column (Aug. 8) on the NRA as treasonous. I wanted to take a moment and applaud David Cook and the Times Free Press for having the courage to respond so eloquently to the lobbying and public relations efforts of the NRA.

I grew up in the '60s and '70s in an area of the country where gun ownership was not just commonplace but virtually unanimous. I have owned guns and do not object to responsible gun ownership.

The NRA should be a force for good, but instead acts as a bully, shouting down reasonable voices, and misusing their membership funds to threaten anybody willing to stand up to their strong-arm tactics. The fact that they do this for the most base of reasons, to increase corporate profits, with complete disregard for the lives of their members, is criminal.

I hope this is one of those situations where a single person with the courage to speak up starts a conversation that leads to a positive change. Thank you again, David Cook.

NATHAN BELL, Signal Mountain

Olympian Phelps will be missed

To gold medal Olympian Michael Phelps: You have exhibited humility in winning -- and losing. You have given your family some heart-stopping moments but always brought them pride.

We will all miss you, Michael. Have a good life.


Murphy's worries a waste of time

I grew up in Chattanooga and now live between Blue Ridge, Ga., and Murphy, N.C. Thank Goodness. I thought our government here was bad until today when I saw just how out of touch Chattanooga City Councilman Peter Murphy really is. With all of the gang violence, lack of jobs and high number of homeless veterans he doesn't have anything better to do than to waste the time of the ATF by complaining about the color of firearms.

I showed this front-page story (Aug. 7) about him to a female friend of mine who laughed until it hurt as she showed me her bright pink Sig 9mm pistol that has gold inlay that reads "I Survived Cancer" on the barrel of it.

Another friend has a 375 magnum, which is UT orange and white. They paid more for their firearms to get the colors that they liked ,which meant paying higher taxes for them. They both carry them for their safety.

Peter Murphy, who is head of the council's Legal, Legislative and Public Safety Committee, should spend the time that taxpayers are paying him for to see that downtown is more safe instead of worrying about the colors of firearms.

KEEVIN PRINCE, Mineral Bluff, Ga.

Nothing wrong with gay people

Owner of Chick-fil-A Dan Cathy's comments disturb me because they only add to the angst some people experience with the realization that they are gay.

To anyone struggling because you are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or questioning, I have a message from your allies: We love you. There is nothing wrong with you. There is a great deal wrong with a culture that cannot accept that you are perfectly made in the image of God. You deserve to live openly and without fear, to work without being subjected to discrimination, to marry the person you love, to be a legal parent to your children, to participate in medical decisions for your family, and to leave an estate for your surviving spouse and children, just like other families do. I urge others to "come out" and speak up on behalf of our LGBT friends and loved ones at every opportunity. Let us love our LGBT neighbors as ourselves by making life hospitable for them, in our families, schools, sports, churches, the workplace, and as citizens with full equal rights.


Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.


'Nothing wrong with gay people'.......

Nothing wrong. One of the greatest ways to achieve 'nothing wrong' is to NOT ACT on immoral impulses. I am heterosexual, I am attracted to many women, but, I do not act on these immoral impulses! That would be adultery. Every male has estrogen, every female has testosterone. Maybe some do feel attraction to the same sex at times...DON'T ACT ON THE IMMORAL IMPULSES. Following is an example of what can happen when one acts on these immoral impulses:

Do You remember the extremely popular TFP Article, ' A tempest in my soul: A son's secret... ? My entire response was compassion for the Young Man. Let us take the example and avoid someone writing about us in a similar way. Here are a couple of things from the article we do not want written about us:

" Pneumonia in young, healthy men was uncommon, was typically linked to something more deadly. Pneumocystis pneumonia crept into the bodies of people with weakened immune systems -- people in the last stages of AIDS. Months later,...moved their son home to die. He'd been whittled away from 160 pounds to 72 pounds. His legs thinned to matchsticks. Experimental medicine ravaged his nerve fibers, and the feeling of the sheets touching his feet at night made him scream for Jesus to take him. "Am I going to hell after I die?"..."What determines if you go to heaven is that you accept Jesus Christ as your savior,....Once you are accepted in God's family, you are not going to be kicked out." the hospital again, this time with a jaw infection so bad he couldn't swallow....He screamed from the pain..."

Please, ! Hear my clarion cry! Allow Wisdom to speak to You. Flee any notion of entering into this lifestyle some have labeled 'The Culture of Death'.


August 11, 2012 at 1:19 a.m.
Ozzy87 said...

Start making the tinfoil hats, find your ear plugs, and get ready to gouge your eyes out with pensils because Ken Orr is bloviating.

August 11, 2012 at 6:38 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Ken Orr, you obviously learn nothing from the other posters here. You keep repeating the same false information here day after day despite being corrected. Therefore, you are a liar and a troll. What's worse, you are a Liar for Jesus. I change my mind. You don't need help-you need to be banned.

August 11, 2012 at 7:27 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Mr. Orr is an excellent example of why America was not and should never be a Christian nation or any other kind of theocratic nation.

Only a secular government can protect the right of people to have freedom of and from religion.

There's few problems that can not be made worse by a pope, preacher, police, or politician.

August 11, 2012 at 8:09 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, So you think anyone with a different opinion than yours should be banned. This site is for all opinions not just liberal and athiest. You say things I don't like and I say things you don't like that doesn't mean we should be banned. Grow up!

August 11, 2012 at 8:14 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

And you, dear degage, unless you can verify Ken Orr's crazy rants with evidence, butt out.

August 11, 2012 at 9:05 a.m.
jesse said...

This situation w/Dr. Hill reeks of a setup!

By the time it's resolved it's gonna stink to high heaven!!

August 11, 2012 at 9:24 a.m.


What/Which information that I present is false? Which/What fact(s) do I need to verify regarding my above comment? I hope I have been fair & balanced!

And please review the following which fits in very well with this thread. I just did some thinking and came up with these thoughts:

The Boy Scouts of America has an oath which reads:

"On my honor, I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."

Recently, news stories detail how Eagle Scouts are quitting the organization. This is in protest to the Boy Scout's stance on homosexual membership. Words like 'honor', and, 'God' make it clear that the B.S.A is a religiously orientated entity. All of the world's great religions do forbid homosexuality. Some would argue that the extreme rates of HIV/AIDS in the homosexual community partly explains the religious backlash. As a past Boy Scout troop member, and, later, a Cub Scout Master, I find it honorable that some of the Eagle Scouts are quitting. They are possibly preventing the spread of certain diseases within the Scouting ranks. Some of them know, through a belief in God, that they do not belong with innocent youth. Hopefully, the self-initiated purge of these Eagle Scouts will continue.

Ken Orr

August 11, 2012 at 10:01 a.m.


CHALLENGE: Specify one, one, only one, empirical claim I have made which is false. I will be able to learn from this. One, just one... Center for Disease Control Statistic, Demographic Infectious Disease Number, etc. Anyone can state, "That is False!" That is so easy to say. I do cite my sources...I do present 'Scientific Method Verifiable' Research Findings. Please offer One example of 'False Empirical Claims' I have presented...Just One. Thank You!...kwo

August 11, 2012 at 10:09 a.m.
degage said...

Ike, You don't seem to understand, I was only defending his rights. You on the other hand want to censor him because you disagree with him. You and I don't have to agree with him or anyone else but in this country we still have rights to not be censored.

August 11, 2012 at 10:47 a.m.


(I had left some words out of the above comment). Corrected Version:

.......The Purging of Eagle Scouts.......

The Boy Scouts of America has an oath which reads: "On my honor, I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."

Recently news stories detail how homosexual [some] Eagle Scouts are quitting the organization. This is in protest to the Boy Scout's stance on homosexual membership. Words like 'honor', and, 'God' make it clear that the B.S.A is a religiously orientated entity. All of the world's great religions do forbid homosexuality. Some would argue that the extreme rates of HIV/AIDS in the homosexual community partly explains the religious backlash. As a past Boy Scout troop member, and, later, a Cub Scout Master, I find it honorable that some of the Eagle Scouts are quitting. They are possibly preventing the spread of certain diseases within the Scouting ranks. Some of them know, through a belief in God, that they do not belong with innocent youth. Hopefully, the self-initiated purge of these Eagle Scouts will continue.

Ken Orr

August 11, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

And I have the right to say he should be banned. That isn't the same thing as censored. He has become a real drag on this forum (not that there are others that haven't but they are not repeating the same thing over and over. This is why forums are moderated. My favorite one has a "bathroom wall" where posters that want to blather are sent. No censorship, just changing the channel so to speak.

August 11, 2012 at 12:10 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Some would argue that the extreme rates of HIV/AIDS in the homosexual community partly explains the religious backlash.

Not really, since anyone can transmit HIV. Being gay does not automatically mean you are HIV positive. Being gay does not mean you desire to have sex with everyone around you either. Also, not all religious sects condemn homosexuality. The church I am associated with does not. So therefore, "morality" is subjective. You don't keep kosher. Does that make you immoral?

August 11, 2012 at 12:14 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Mr. Derryberry, I'm not sure what sort of "utopia" you think Mr. Cook yearns for. I seriously doubt that it is any kind of utopia at all but rather merely a society where everyone is not packing heat everywhere we go. Your notion of utopia seems to be a sort of modern-day Wild West where we don't have to rely on the cops, but just settle our differences at the point of a gun.

I'm one of those liberals who don't particularly like guns but I own one and I respect others' right to own one, and I don't envision a society without guns or where everyone is suddenly going to make nice all the time and we all live happily ever after. But I do realistically envision a society where it's made much more difficult, at least, for psychos to be able to get their hands on mass killing weapons that nobody has any business owning in the first place; and a society where we don't have to carry a holstered pistol every moment of every day everywhere we go. Having a loaded gun at your side might make you feel safer, might make you feel more like the wannabe cowboy that you seem to want to be, and it might indeed deter some criminal activity, but can you imagine how many more incidental shootings and killings we would have, simply because more people had a gun at the ready to settle heated arguments? Your call to arms and more arms in more places as a remedy for these mass killings is no remedy at all but merely sinking to the lowest level of our human nature, living in paranoia and a state of constant warfare among ourselves.

Unfortunately, thanks to deluded people like you and the strong-arm tactics of the NRA, which, by the way IS a disgusting and shameful organization, worthy of being called treasonous, we seem to be getting closer and closer every day to your notion of a Wild West "utopia."

August 11, 2012 at 1:16 p.m.


For those who want some new on-topic information regarding You are. Does the following also cause You to want me banned. ("get him away from me, he is debating too powerfully!") Are You actually just not used to being neutralized by having the light shine on your pitiful attempts to intimidate? If You want to be a real player, don't fear the rule book of the contest. It's a new thing on here, now.

As you may already know there are several strains of HIV. In addition, when exposed to medications, HIV changes or mutates over time. If a person is reinfected with a strain of HIV that is different from the strains already present or if a mutated HIV type is introduced into the body through sex, etc., treatment will be much more complex and potentially ineffective. For example, someone is being treated for HIV and his/her medications are working well...the viral load is undetectable. Then he/she has sex with another person living with HIV and gets reinfected with their particular that is resistant to most medications. Over time, that new strain will flourish in the body, rendering his/her once successful treatment useless. Eventually the viral load skyrockets and the immune system pays the price.



August 11, 2012 at 2:06 p.m.


lkeithlu, You said, "not all religious sects condemn homosexuality. The church I am associated with does not. So therefore, "morality" is subjective."

You're trying to change the rules. lkeithlu, I did not say a thing about religious sects. I state the 'Great Religions of the World' prohibit homosexuality. Any 'Johnny Come Lately Sect' can support anything they choose. They can even support the NORTH AMERICAN MAN boy LOVE ASSOCIATION [N.A.M.b.L.A], or, Bestiality, etc. They are a 'renegade sect'...Not the core Great Religion of the World! (I'm not saying You, specifically, necessarily, belong to a renegade sect)...kwo Play fair, if You truly want be in the contest. Or, do You want to ban those who shine the light on You?


August 11, 2012 at 2:19 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Renegade sect? The Episcopal church? Last I checked that was a mainstream denomination.

You did not address the issue, Ken. I claim that morality is subjective and not absolute. According to some of my relatives, you and I are not fully moral because we don't keep kosher. Are they correct? In my church instrumental music is okay, but my neighbors church says it isn't. Who is right? I do not cover my head in public. According to a large number of people on this planet I am sinning. Am I?

Your version of right and wrong may not be the same as the next person's, as religious beliefs vary widely. Which, of course, is why we live in a secular country. That way no one's beliefs trump another.

They can even support the NORTH AMERICAN MAN boy LOVE ASSOCIATION [N.A.M.b.L.A], or, Bestiality,

I am going to pretend that you did not stoop so low as to suggest anyone's religion would condone these illegal acts.

August 11, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.
degage said...

episcopal is an offshoot from the catholic church.

August 11, 2012 at 3:06 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

catholic lite, degage!

August 11, 2012 at 3:07 p.m.
shen said...

George DerryBerry said"One such citizen could have prevented or minimized the loss of lives at Virginia Tech, both mass shootings in Colorado, and the slaughter of helpless Amish girls in Pennsylvania."

Or, George, the other likely more plausabile scenario being/ with everyone shooting in a surprised and chaotic situation There would have been even more injured and dead bodies to collect.

August 11, 2012 at 3:09 p.m.
degage said...

Henery V111 wanted a divorce and the pope said no so he started his own church'the church of england' episcotal is a form of that church.

August 11, 2012 at 3:21 p.m.

Well, we could go back to the Great Religion (Relationship of) Christianity. Try this one on for size: [Of course, I believe where there are more homosexual individuals, there will exist more opposition to the earliest (most authentic/genuine/valid/or, truest)Christian prohibition to homosexuality.]

ROMANS 1:22- "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,..."


August 11, 2012 at 3:40 p.m.

Also, there is a very interestingly/disturbingly high correlation of: 'Organization with more homosexual individuals produces highest number of Child Sexual Abuse Cases'. Go Figure?

This is one of the most cogent arguments for barring all homosexual individuals from the Boy Scouts of America. This, to be done at all costs.


August 11, 2012 at 3:45 p.m.
degage said...

Ken, Ike is right , you are a bit overbearing.

August 11, 2012 at 3:49 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

It is a complete waste of time to try to argue rationally with Ken Orr. He is a very sick, twisted individual. I have made comments to him in the past but I refuse to waste time with him any more. Anyone who uses the Bible as their starting reference point, as he and all Bible thumpers do, is impossible to debate. Not that you cannot out-debate him because you really can, and quite easily - the Bible is so full of contradictions and abusurdities that it is easy to refute. But in his mind he will win every argument every time, because he honestly thinks that God and his "holy, inerrant Bible" are the be-all and end-all, the one and only eternal truth - logic be damned. He is beyond the scope of reason and common sense.

It has been said that a neurotic is someone who builds castles in the sky, while a psychotic builds castles in the sky and also lives in them. Ken Orr obviously lives in his castles in the sky. He is no longer of this earth but dwelling, body and soul, in the Holy, I mean Spirit.

August 11, 2012 at 4:09 p.m.


Because I agree with the Boy Scouts of America, does that make me overbearing? I will turn the heat down some, if it is for some other reason. Truly, I willfully will!

Thank You, Rickaroo, I am dwelling in the Holy Spirit of The Lord God of Hosts. I invite You here...will all of my heart.

Following: Portion of Boy Scouts of America Official Policy on Youth Protection:

"The adult application requests background information that should be checked by the unit committee or the chartered organization before accepting an applicant for unit leadership. While no current screening techniques exist that can identify every potential child molester, we can reduce the risk of accepting a child molester by learning all we can about an applicant for a leadership position—his or her experience with children, why he or she wants to be a Scout leader, and what discipline techniques he or she would use."(Credit to Boy Scouts of America U.S.A.)


August 11, 2012 at 4:19 p.m.
moon4kat said...

Rickaroo, you are right. There are at least a couple of posters not interested in (or capable of) having a civil discussion. They are full of illogical bombast, distortions, disinformation, and angry blithering. Best to just ignore them, or suggest removal when they get too abusive.

August 11, 2012 at 5 p.m.


Is it abusive if I ask readers to follow a bit of logic? Does this not meet the requirements of intelligent discussion within a current thread?

For example:

The Boy Scouts of America has been a glowing example of Americanism. They have produced some of the greatest leaders throughout the whole earth. Patriotism in it's grandest, most noble form, is found among those in the Scouts. This also applies to those who have been affiliated with the Scouts in the past.

Now...the logic. "The Boy Scouts of America has produced a well reasoned association of ideas. There is a definite correlation founded upon semantic and analytic factual information. Powerful, distinguished, well educated, morally upright, patriotic individuals have drawn certain definite conclusions." (My original statement is in quotations). (I am not trying to speak for the Boy Scouts of America, these are solely my opinions).

  1. Homosexual individuals are banned from the Boy Scouts of America.

  2. This ban is to protect Youth from sexual abuse.

  3. The association/correlation presumed is: Homosexual individuals are possible/probable Child Sexual Abusers.

The man who viciously sexually abused me as a Toddler had, earlier in life, been a Life Scout (level of achievement within Scouting). Later on I became a Tenderfoot, Second Class, then First Class Scout.

As a Cub Scout Master in TN , I determined to be the highest level of an honorable example to my Cubs. I would sing silly songs to them, and, act like a clown just to get them to smile. We also had many serious, character-building events. I cannot stand the thought that predators would ever, ever, even get close to any of these Children.

August 11, 2012 at 9:58 p.m.
Ozzy87 said...

One person's experiences can not be construed into generalizations. If that's the case, then Tim McVeigh represents the majority of Christians. Sound fair? I think not.

August 11, 2012 at 10:13 p.m.
Livn4life said...

Keep Spewing the Division folks, it's destroying this nation. If you took the Christian influence out of the history of the country as many attempt to do, you would never have the great nation we have. As you try to take God out, you are well on that way as well. No one is forced to believe only respect ones who do. The division seen in the opposing sides on many issues shows there really is very little respect between people who differ. That is heart breaking.

August 11, 2012 at 10:27 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

L4L: The labeling of all gays as predators and child abusers is both un-Christian and un-American. I am sorry that Mr. Orr suffered, but I will not condone the condemnation of a whole group of people (gays) because of this. You shouldn't either.

August 11, 2012 at 10:36 p.m.
Lr103 said...

Orr, I agree with Ikeithlu. Don't confuse a sexual predator with gays. Sexual predators are heterosexuals too. They're criminals who will prey on anyone from a baby in diapers to a 90+ year old senior citizen.

August 11, 2012 at 11:32 p.m.
Ozzy87 said...

Speaking of division, has anyone seen or heard the clip from Bryan Fischer, darling of the talibangicals from the American Family Association and the Family Research Council (recipients of donations from Dan Cathy), calling for an "underground railroad" to "rescue" (kidnap) chidren from same sex couples? Not a word of condemnation from any of them.

August 11, 2012 at 11:45 p.m.

Lr103, I wholeheartedly do agree with Ikeithlu, Sexual predators are heterosexuals too. I certainly cannot dispute that truth...kwo

Lr103, You and degage have a certain...uncanny spirit of 'balance' which You bring to this environment. I hope to emulate You, someday, when i grow up more...kwo

August 12, 2012 at 10:36 a.m.
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