published Saturday, July 28th, 2012

Early Voting

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Jack_Dennis said...

Cartoonists block, eh Bennett?

July 28, 2012 at 12:11 a.m.

Don't worry, the bureaucracy is doing what the right-wing conservatives want...this time, so it's all good. Yay for government obstructionism!

Of course the real problem here is the broken primary system, but that's a complicated issue that probably won't be fixed anytime soon. People just accept things as they are, without much complaint.

July 28, 2012 at 12:27 a.m.
John_Proctor said...

Actually, it's a very funny comment on a regional issue.

July 28, 2012 at 12:32 a.m.
librul said...

We'll see how funny it is when it becomes obvious that it's a national issue.

July 28, 2012 at 12:46 a.m.
blackwater48 said...


Winning is the only thing, so you gotta give those tea baggers credit. Sixteen republican controlled states have passed voter suppression laws intended to secure the 2012 election.

In Pennsylvania, for instance, their version will prevent about 1,000,000 registered voters - primarily Democrats - from voting in November.

Republican majority leader Mike Turzai boasted their new voter ID law would give Mitt the election. They just have to stop enough Democrats from voting.

The ACLU has challenged the Constitutionality of Pennsylvania's voter ID law. (Sidebar: In a case like this a judge might like to hear from the State the answer to two questions: 1. What was the problem? 2. What's was your solution?

Funny story; Here's what the State of Pennsylvania actually had to say in Court about voter fraud:

“There have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states."

Sounds like voter ID laws are a solution in search of a problem.

I've heard conservatives often say that illegal immigrants vote and that's why we need voter IDs. One problem with that: why would someone who is trying to stay below the radar risk jail time at worst or deportation at best just to cast one lousey vote? That is ridiculous. You can't steal an election because a few illegal immigrants - for reasons no one's been able to explain to me - decided to risk it all and cast a ballot.

You steal elections by locking out millions of registered voters.

July 28, 2012 at 1:54 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

blackwater: horsehockey

July 28, 2012 at 2:06 a.m.
tenben62 said...

Blackwater, Why is wanting free and fair elections voter suppression? Can't Democrats win elections w/o Illegals, convicts, repeat voters and dead people? Do not tell me this is a poll tax either b/c anyone can get a picture ID free of charge.

July 28, 2012 at 3:42 a.m.
fairmon said...

Why not allow anyone that can get to the polling place vote? Is it a good idea to have people voting that don't have the ability to ascertain who they are?

July 28, 2012 at 3:57 a.m.
Reardon said...

...Because Blackwater is a Democrat, sycophantic shill.

July 28, 2012 at 6:06 a.m.
degage said...

Blackwater is not just a democrat she is the new democrat party, the real democrat party has been taken over by the progressives.

July 28, 2012 at 6:52 a.m.
MTJohn said...

The real Republican party was progressive. The new Republican party has been taken over by the oligarchs and the proles who think the oligarchs care about them.

July 28, 2012 at 7:01 a.m.
Salsa said...

Democrats believe in the right of the dead to vote for the democrat candidate of their choice.

July 28, 2012 at 7:10 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Rather than throw insults, why don't you guys answer to the specifics of Blackwater's post?

July 28, 2012 at 7:31 a.m.
librul said...

I know, I know, pick me, pick me !!!!!

It's because rethugs are just a bunch of insulting, knuckle-dragging twits - as Mittens (aka Mitt the Twit) has illustrated to the world.

You gotta give as good as you get .. that's what passes for dialogue in the arena of today's political "discourse".

July 28, 2012 at 7:48 a.m.
conservative said...

One would have to be dumber than a box of rocks to buy what this loontoonist is trying to sell.

July 28, 2012 at 7:54 a.m.
degage said...

Librul, Pot calling the kettle black.

July 28, 2012 at 7:58 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

conservative, either show blackwater's post content to be false or answer to the charge. If you don't you are contributing nothing except flung dung.

July 28, 2012 at 7:59 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

ditto, degage. Answer to the post or show that it is false.

July 28, 2012 at 8 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

crickets chirping

That's what I thought. Thanks for your post, blackwater. Although there are some instances of voter fraud, the numbers are much smaller than the voters that would be affected by these obstacles. Even so, there would be a debate except it is clear from the mouths of the GOP members themselves what the purpose and goal of these voter ID laws are. Just like the GOP lawmakers stating publicly that their highest priority was not to solve the economic problems facing the US, but to limit Obama to one term. No one has to work hard to expose the true intentions-they are quick to reveal them for us.

July 28, 2012 at 9:27 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Who is the voter I.D. laws going to hurt anyway?

July 28, 2012 at 9:45 a.m.

tenben62, not why, but how. How the laws have been written will and has excluded many valid voters. You cannot make an election more valid by denying voters in the name of seeking a few speculative bad eggs. Can't Republicans win with an actual turnout of every genuine voter? And don't lie to yourself, to get valid ID requires hours of time, considerable amounts of travel (only 1/3 of Tennessee counties have driver's license bureaus), and frequently it does require actual costs in order to gain the required documentation. Have you seen the charges to get a certified birth certificate? Why don't you have the state of Tennessee reimburse people for their costs? Why don't you have the state take a proactive role in ensuring that people have valid ID?

Not that this has anything to do with the problem in Rhea County, but obviously nobody's going to care about that.

Even though it's important too.

TOES02800: Everybody, because you destroyed the election's validity in order to save it.

July 28, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.
Reardon said...

LKeith --

In a world where ID theft is so rampant, doesn't it make sense to require basic identification when participating in an election?

Just because there is LOW instance of voter fraud, DOESN'T make it unnecessary to be proactive.

It's like cognitive dissonance with you people. Why is it so unreasonable for people to validate themselves in a world full of fraud and deceit?

PS: I know nothing about Rhea County's specific election issues; my comments are "in general."

PPS: Think of SOLUTIONS, not the PROBLEMS -- there are ways to circumvent the consequences of having people validate their existence with a 3rd party to reduce the expense/inconvenience.

July 28, 2012 at 9:56 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

"Voting enthusiasm among Democrats has not only dived since 2008; it's 12% below that of Republicans. And yet, the media continues to float the myth that it's Republicans who are divided and unhappy with their nominee".

July 28, 2012 at 9:58 a.m.
tderng said...

Why don't we just let anybody who shows up vote? Then you could travel around to as many polling places as you can get to in the time allotted. Why have to show I.D.'s at all? Why not just be able to go to the back of the line and go again? Then everyone is equally allowed to vote! Aww shucks...that won't work because most republicans have a JOB and can't stand in line all day! Having to show any I.D. is voter suppression! We need to stop this form of voter suppression and allow all people here in the U.S. to vote. How about someone who got caught 30 years ago with a very small amount of a controlled substance still can't vote because the justice system decided to charge him/her with a felony even though the amount was miniscule.VOTER SUPPRESSION!!! They are still citizens of this country but have NO rights.

July 28, 2012 at 10 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

TOES, there are many people, citizens of this country, who would have difficulty getting birth certificates. The rural elderly, especially black, often don't have birth certificates. If you are poor, uneducated, have limited mobility, are disabled, these are unreasonable obstacles. For every "fraud" voter that may be deterred (and a lot of fraud is not solved by this-mail in and absentee voting is unaffected) dozens of citizens who have always been able to vote will be denied. Perhaps that's the ultimate goal-if you are poor, old, minority, then you don't really "deserve" to vote-after all, what do you know about the political system, right? Let us people of means do your thinking for you.

If it could be shown that voter fraud was rampant, especially among the disadvantaged, there are ways to solve it without making it so difficult for them to vote. But the intentions are clear and already made public. This isn't about voter fraud.

July 28, 2012 at 10:02 a.m.
conservative said...

The loontoonist is trying to provide Demoncrat voters with an excuse for the upcoming drubbing they are about to take.

July 28, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Destroyed the elections validity by requiring proof you're not lying to people? Typical liberal. If they can get to the store to get booze and cat food, they can get a damn I.D.. Your worried. I realize you need the poor to stay poor so you can get their votes.

July 28, 2012 at 10:05 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

PPS: Think of SOLUTIONS, not the PROBLEMS -- there are ways to circumvent the consequences of having people validate their existence with a 3rd party to reduce the expense/inconvenience.

Then why isn't this happening? Why present huge obstacles that impact the poor and elderly the most to solve a problem that is so small? Because the goal is NOT to reduce fraud, it is to reduce votes that would be primarily democrat. They have said so.

I'll tell you something about rural areas and small towns. The elections are run by locals, and almost everyone is known by name. It is impossible for people outside of of our area to regularly vote improperly, because strangers are noticed. Our area DMV center (our county doesn't actually have one anymore) is open 1 day per week, and is not accessible by what little public transportation we have. Another is open 4 days/week, and again is not accessible by public transport. Both are 40 miles away from my town.

July 28, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
conservative said...

Maybe drubbing is too strong, that happened last election,he-he.

July 28, 2012 at 10:08 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Voter suppression? Yet another red herring to divert attention from The Dear Leader's failed administration.

July 28, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Once again, conservative and now Jack Dennis. Go to blackwater's original post. Either debuck it with evidence or acknowledge it. Coming here and making insults only makes you look dishonest. (of course, if you WANT to look dishonest, well, you are succeeding)

July 28, 2012 at 10:13 a.m.
Easy123 said...


None of the arguments you present make logical sense.


The same goes for you as well.

July 28, 2012 at 10:16 a.m.
tderng said...

whats the matter easy? Isn't that what you want? Just show up and vote? Why show I.D. at all?

July 28, 2012 at 10:26 a.m.
Easy123 said...


Are you retracting your sarcasm? Or are you intentionally playing stupid?

July 28, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.

Reardon, because of how it's being done, which is a way that has unacceptable consequences. And you just said ID theft happens. You think somebody can't produce fake ID too? It's only the innocent who would be hurt, not the criminals who we're supposed to be worried about stealing elections. (And don't even get me started on how much of a failure "REAL ID" has been.)

Like I said, I could support this idea if it was combined with a genuine pro-active effort to ensure that everybody had proper ID...before implementing it at the polls, but that has been declared as too expensive or costly, so...what do we do?

Live with genuine voters being excluded from the polls for specious reasons? That destroys the election as it's no longer truly participatory.

As for Rhea County's issues:

tderng: Your attempt to come up with something preposterous is just showing how little you care about the actual problems here. You're just obsessed with fantasies.

But yes, denying of voting rights for a minor offense decades ago is also a serious problem, and has been used as a suppression tactic. Thanks for noticing. We should do something about that too.

TOES02800, I realize you're worried, you need the poor to stay dis-empowered otherwise they might realize what kind of scam job you're using on them, and so you keep them from the ballots in the name of protecting their votes, and you just hope they won't notice who is the real victim before it's too late.

If you deny one genuine voter for specious reasons, then you've pretty much guaranteed that the election can't be considered participatory. Do you just want the elite few determining the course of an election? Why are you afraid of so many people voting that you create an imaginary bogeyman while ignoring the real threats to election integrity? Here's a hint, it's behind the ballot box! Shouldn't we be sure that our voting machines are accurate? Oh wait no, we just need to trust Premier Election Solutions and lection Systems & Software, they surely wouldn't try to sell inadequate systems.

July 28, 2012 at 10:30 a.m.
hambone said...

So far no one has posted on the real issue of this cartoon.

Here we have 2 republican canidates with no democrat opposing them in the general election scwabbling over legal democrat voters crossing over and voting in their primary.

It has nothing to do with voter ID!

July 28, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
mymy said...

Same subject different day: So what else is new! Boring when you need to be looking at more important information. Obama's plan to destroy this country. Just one og a ton of problems with Obamacare.

Indiana company scraps plans for expansion over ObamaCare device tax.

An Indiana-based medical equipment manufacturer says it's scrapping plans to open five new plants in the coming years because of a looming tax tied to President Obama's health care overhaul law.

Cook Medical claims the tax on medical devices, set to take effect next year, will cost the company roughly $20 million a year, cutting into money that would otherwise go toward expanding into new facilities over the next five years.

"This is the equivalent of about a plant a year that we're not going to be able to build," a company spokesman told He said the original plan was to build factories in "hard-pressed" Midwestern communities, each employing up to 300 people. But those factories cost roughly the same amount as the projected cost of the new tax.

"In reality, we're not looking at the U.S. to build factories anymore as long as this tax is in place. We can't, to be competitive," he said.

Read more:

July 28, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.

hambone, I know I wasn't explicit, but if you read my post (the second from the top), I did refer to as the broken primary system.

And I did just link to it above.

July 28, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.
Easy123 said...


That is a very short-sighted post/report from you and your beloved Fox News.

Would you like to give us some more Right-wing propaganda?

July 28, 2012 at 10:49 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ikeithlu: I don't need to debuck or debunk anything. This is a piddling issue to divert attention. Why are you dems now so worried about voter fraud? You guys made it an art form. You guys will go to any extreme to get the entitlement crowd registered. It's about enfranchising the slackers. Nothing else.

July 28, 2012 at 10:53 a.m.
Easy123 said...


"You guys will go to any extreme to get the entitlement crowd registered. It's about enfranchising the slackers. Nothing else."

You have just exposed the Republican's true intentions. You want to keep these people from voting. You don't want them to vote at all, EVER!

Thank you for being a dumbass. You hang yourself on every word.

July 28, 2012 at 11 a.m.
mymy said...

I'm laugh out loud Easy. Believe what you want. Obamacare will cost jobs. Hide and watch!

July 28, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.
Easy123 said...


"I'm laugh out loud Easy. Believe what you want. Obamacare will cost jobs. Hide and watch!"

Baseless opinion as usual. Keep digging!

July 28, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

ikeithlu: I don't need to debuck or debunk anything. This is a piddling issue to divert attention. Why are you dems now so worried about voter fraud? You guys made it an art form. You guys will go to any extreme to get the entitlement crowd registered. It's about enfranchising the slackers. Nothing else.

Translation: I have nothing intelligent to offer, so I will substitute some more diversions and insults in case someone figures me out.

July 28, 2012 at 11:10 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I stand by what I said. "you have nothing intelligent to offer" is the mantra of the left. You knuckleheads have hijacked a once decent party. God (sorry, lefties) help us if your ilk continues to control the Dems.

July 28, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

So you agree with the content of blackwater's post? Or do you disagree and have the evidence to show that it is wrong? Which is it?

July 28, 2012 at 11:16 a.m.

Ah the mantra of the right, it's not me, it's you. Just because I produce nothing but vapid hyperbole and derogatory blather, you still need to take us seriously. You muckspewers have ruined a once halfway close to being sorta decent party. I worry about this country as your ilk continues to become the way of the Republicans.

And so does John McCain.

July 28, 2012 at 11:25 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

any voter fraud is wrong. registering illegal aliens is wrong. dead-people voting is wrong. this voter suppression fiasco is all politics. wise up, keith. plenty of cheating to go around.

July 28, 2012 at 11:26 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You're not answering the question. Do you agree with the content of his post? Do you accept it as valid and correct? Is it clear to you what the real goal of voter ID movement is?

July 28, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.

And any voter suppression is wrong. Denying genuine citizens the right to vote is wrong. Implementing a solution to a non-existent problem in a way that creates voter suppression is wrong.

This voter fraud fiasco is all partisanship. Wise up Jack, there's no substantive problem with fraud, it's all about the suppression. The real cheating is inside the elections office, not with people lining up to pretend to be somebody else. Of course we can't fix that problem, that'd require holding corporations accountable for their failed voting systems.

July 28, 2012 at 11:36 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I do not accept it as valid, no.

Bulbous: No one on here knows more about vapid hyperbole and derogatory blather than you, pal.

July 28, 2012 at 11:40 a.m.

I copied some FAQ's from TN.GOV web site.

I have a driver license, but it doesn’t have a photo. Can I use it to vote?

No, but if you do not have another form of valid photo ID, the Department of Safety and Homeland Security will reissue your license with your photo for FREE UPON REQUEST

I can’t afford a copy of my birth certificate, so I can’t get a photo ID. Can I still vote?

Yes. If you cannot afford a copy of the documents required to obtain a free photo ID, you may sign a form stating under oath that you are indigent and have been unable to obtain an acceptable photo ID for voting WITHOUT PAYING A FEE.

Who may apply to vote absentee?

The voter is sixty (60) years of age or older; The voter has a physical disability and an inaccessible polling place;

Ok so I do not have an ID and the election is still 3 months away what can I do if I am poor elderly or disabled?

If I have a phone or a mailing address I can request an absentee ballet and mail in my vote. And if I am one of unfortunate people in this world with out a picture ID that is the way I probobly have voted in the past since I haven't been able to do much in this world without one.

But the elderly don't always have a picture on their drivers licence so DMV has an express line set up for a no charge picture.

But if it is too much to ask to go by there and waste your time or travel out of your county you can resort to option A the absentee ballet.

So how do the poor elderly indegent folks get to the polls in the first place if they can't do any of the free options at some point in the next 3 months? And why can't they use the same resources to aquire the documentation between now and then?

And if you say they shouldn't have to be bothered Again refer to option A the absentee ballet.

July 28, 2012 at 11:43 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Now we are getting somewhere. Do you have evidence to show the story is incorrect? Or do you dismiss it out of hand because you don't like it?

Take your time. I'll be off line for a few hours. Don't want you to think I'm ignoring your well-thought out answer.

July 28, 2012 at 11:46 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Evidence? I can find "links" to support or disprove anything on here. The world does not run on links like you and your ilk believe. Whatever happened to common sense? Too much kool-aid, bub.

July 28, 2012 at 11:58 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Evidence? I can find "links" to support or disprove anything on here

Then do it. I'll be back later to check on your work. Of course, you can throw in the towel now and confirm your dishonest dodging. Either way is fine with me. Later....

July 28, 2012 at 12:01 p.m.
Easy123 said...


"Evidence? I can find "links" to support or disprove anything on here. The world does not run on links like you and your ilk believe. Whatever happened to common sense? Too much kool-aid, bub."

Translation: No, I don't have any evidence. My baseless opinion is enough for me. In fact, I resent evidence.

July 28, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.

Jack_Dennis, well, yes, I do see a lot of it from putative Republicans and other erstwhile conservative trolls here.

And your idea of common sense is fabricated nonsense that just goes by what your "gut" tells you is true.

Reminds me of Colbert:

Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works. Every night on my show, the Colbert Report, I speak straight from the gut, OK? I give people the truth, unfiltered by rational argument.

DJHBRAINERD, great, now why don't you mention some of the problems? Like how College and University ID aren't valid. What about the non-elderly residents who don't qualify to vote absentee? What is the specific process to declare oneself indigent for the purposes of getting ID? What documents are needed? Where can one find the seplaces to get that free ID? Wait, they're not in every county?

Wouldn't it be conceivable for every elections clerk to be given a way to produce valid photo ID, or is that too much to ask?

Not that this has anything to do with what happened in Rhea County, but nobody is going to discuss that.

July 28, 2012 at 12:06 p.m.
joneses said...

Poor little dummycrats, they are playing victims again and are looking for someone to rescue them.

July 28, 2012 at 12:45 p.m.


You can't enroll in college without a valid picture ID And noone takes college ID's for anything off campus anyway except discounts at the Tivoli.

I can’t afford a copy of my birth certificate, so I can’t get a photo ID. Can I still vote?

Yes. If you cannot afford a copy of the documents required to obtain a free photo ID, you may sign a form stating under oath that you are indigent and have been unable to obtain an acceptable photo ID for voting without paying a fee.

So it seem that you would only have to sign a form where you vote stating you cannot afford a copy of your birth certificate(indigent) and you will be allowed to vote. So the poor folks who don't drive or have a photo ID and don't have a birth certificate don't really have to be bothered at all. Just sign a form when you arrive and you get to vote.(kinda takes the teeth out of the law doesn't it?)

And yes I think someone on site should be able to issue an ID on election day.

I also think there should be a hot line to call to declare your problems and if you are truly displaced by this law someone should come to your house and make an ID for you at no charge.

As far as Rhea county goes I just read a link that was provided. not sure what to think about a poll worker deciding which ballot I am entitled to. In fact I think she should face some sort of criminal proceeding for trying to influence the outcome of an election. Because if noone was running as a democrat then every citizen should be allowed to vote in the republican primary. Simply because every citizen should be allowed to vote for every elected position reguardless of party affiliation.

When I vote in the primaries one of the hardest desisions I make is which ballot to vote on. I like some of the candidates from each party and I often want to vote against an incumbent as much as voting for a candidate, so making me choose sides often keeps me from voting for/against someone in another race.

July 28, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.

DJHBRAINERD, really? I never recall having to show ID to get into college. Are you sure that's actually a widespread thing? I can't say I used my ID for anything, but that's because the picture was horribly misprinted. Yet they were indifferent to it.

But no, your representation of the actual process of signing that indigency form is not what I was asking for. The bare description here is...not necessarily accurate. You really need to look into the precise details. If it's as easy as you purport, then what's the real purpose of the voter ID? And what if the poll workers or the people at the Driver's License office don't want to admit that it is an option? And what about having to go back to validate your provisional ballot? Isn't that a potential problem?

But good on you for saying that somebody should come to your house and make an ID. As well as somebody on site to deal with it. That's good. Unfortunately that won't happen.

As for the Rhea County issue, well, that's why I don't support the current primary system. Not that I like the jungle primaries as implemented elsewhere. I think we really need some more extensive reforms.

July 28, 2012 at 1:04 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Bulbous: Re blather...your last 2 posts prove my point.

July 28, 2012 at 1:13 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

.."The Emergency Committee for Israel is waging a media blitz to alert voters to President Obama’s failure to visit Israel during his four years in office.".. Probably a genetic predisposition to not get too cozy with Israel.

July 28, 2012 at 1:17 p.m.

Jack_Dennis: Your every post proves my point.

July 28, 2012 at 1:27 p.m.


I don't believe you could become a college student without a valid photo ID but it has been years since I graduated so I could be mistaken when I responded to your original concerns.

As far as the process goes, I wasn't sure how things would work so I went to to the FAQ's section for my information.

And as you pointed out if it is that easy to vote without an ID then what is the point of the law? I was wondering that myself. And if I read it correctly there isn't a provisional used in this instance. Just sign and vote. The provisional comes into play when you show up without an ID and are not indigent(won't swear under oath to the contrary) then you would be required to return within 2 business days with prober ID. I think with the Rhea county incident in mind your concerns about poll workers being forthcoming have merit.

Having to swear alligence to a party and prove my boni fides seems unamerican and has no place in our election process. The democrats of Rhea county deserve to vote for the state rep even if they live in a red county. And I would hope people of both parties can see just how wrong the actions of Mrs Snyder are.

July 28, 2012 at 1:51 p.m.

DJHBRAINERD, I did, the only time they asked for say a Driver's License was when you got a parking pass. Something you didn't quite have to do.

And yes the process on a website is often quite different from the process in the polls. Poll workers behave as humans do, and humans often not able to know what the situation is, even if you can point it out to them. With a sign they've got posted on their OWN wall. I know they didn't have eyes on the back of their head, but surely they'd seen it once!

Get a person outside their comfortable routine, and sometimes things go badly.

July 28, 2012 at 2:02 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I think we should just use the honor system when voting.

July 28, 2012 at 2:09 p.m.

That'd be what Republicans want for the actual count. Just take the word of the companies making the elections machines, let them self-certify.

July 28, 2012 at 2:14 p.m.

Happy No need for a paper trail.... That is the single biggest threat to our election system. Let them vote however they want as long as we do the counting. I think I heard something similer in a history class .

It is already almost impossible to get rid of an incumbent. Now we have no way to know the vote count or if fraud occured because the machines tell us the totals. The districts have been gerrymandered to secure a specific outcome between establishment vetted candidates. Now add in a litmus test to vote in the primaries and I would say democracy is on on life support.

And yes it is fun to watch what happens when you press an individual who has been givin a little control over something in thier life. Like Mrs Snyder. Just a little control over a simple proccess and it is turned into a scandalous affair. She can control who votes in her county. Very disturbing thing going on up north. Probably the biggest scandle up there since that male stripper shook his stuff in that poor womans face and inside edition came to soddy-daisy to see the humiliation for them selves. (I don't know what made me think of that . It just popped in there as I was thinking about those good God fearin flanel wearin folks to the north of the city.) Just plain scandalous

July 28, 2012 at 2:49 p.m.

DJHBRAINERD: Don't forget the other problem with the election system, that it's a winner take all system, so even if the districts were fair (which I think we can agree they aren't), there's bound to be people excluded. And that includes the problem that most states don't require a majority, just the most votes.

July 28, 2012 at 3:32 p.m.


Add in a few rules to limit the possability of 3rd party candidates getting on the ballet or into debates and we get 49-51 on everything in the senate a 5-4 on the bench and the house uses a super majority to off set any simple majority it could have mustered. So in the 3rd district we get a yes man who goes down the party line and a challenger who says he will do the same if given the chance. Now throw in a young man who offers nothing but a familier name and a slick PR firm and I give you an electorate who should demand more. And if you think he is so fresh and new google 1994 contract with america. See if he didn't go into daddy's attic and dust that one off for those with short attention spans. Now if only that guy who had ran a hospital was on the R ballot then we might get a candidate with some insight into the challenges of ACA or the burden of regulations on businesses but unfortunatly he's on the D ballot so I won't mention his name (similer to the treatment he has received from the local media)or the other woman who he is running against.

July 28, 2012 at 3:55 p.m.
hambone said...

Common Sence? No one posting here is useing common sence. If they were they would call voter ID laws for what they are!

Voter soppression!

But then again that would take some common sence!!

July 28, 2012 at 4:09 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Well, no progress from Jack. Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence! Why am I not surprised?

July 28, 2012 at 5:58 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Evidence of what? That some R somewhere said Voter ID was for voter suppression. If said, I'm sure it's been taken OUT OF CONTEXT. bwahahahahaha

July 28, 2012 at 6:12 p.m.
Easy123 said...


Bask in your ignorance, geezer!

July 28, 2012 at 6:23 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

If said, I'm sure it's been taken OUT OF CONTEXT

You can wish this all you want. Until you provide evidence to back up what you say, it means nothing. All day you have been playing this game-I think you have forgotten how it started. Or maybe you would like everyone else to forget how it started so you don't look both foolish and dishonest. But it's all here for everyone to see. Notice your conservative homies never came to your defense: I think you are embarrassing them.

July 28, 2012 at 6:25 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I find it interesting that the Republicans, who were guilty of the most blatant case of stealing an election (2000) in the history of this nation, are the ones yelling so loudly about "voter fraud." That's about like Bernie Madoff getting all hot and bothered about somebody under-tipping a waitress! The cases of intentional voter fraud in this country have been so miniscule that they're not even worth discussing. Yet the neo-cons are doing what they do best: fabricating an issue out of thin air for the purpose of creating a smoke screen to cover their real intent, which is the suppression of voters who are most likely to vote Democrat. The sad and scary thing is that the usual teabaggers who are voicing their opinions here really believe the BS arguments being made. They don't have the common sense to see the obvious: that voter fraud is a non-issue. Or if they do have the common sense to see it, they are as adept as the politicians in perpetuating the lie.

Just like in the global warming debate, in which they rely on bogus petitions signed by pseudo-scientists and outright non-scientists to frame their argument, they listen only to nonsensical, fabricated stories of "voter fraud" that have never even been documented. And in those cases that have been documented, the numbers are so ridiculously small, they wouldn't even register on a nanogram scale, let alone be enough to falsely determine the outcome of an election.

Let's say that we all agreed that having a photo ID would certainly do no harm and would in fact be an extra measure of protection against possible voter fraud. But let's also agree that voting is a very basic and important right and should be not only protected but encouraged for the maximum participation by all citizens. Then why, as some of the more sensible posters have already mentioned here, have the Republicans not only NOT taken measures to make it easy for everyone to obtain a photo ID, but they have made it even much more difficult in many states by shutting down stations that used to be able to serve that purpose? The answer to the WHY is easy and obvious: they don't give a hoot about fair elections. They want Republican-rigged elections. Period.

Voter fraud, my hiney. There is one kind of fraud we're having to contend with, and that's teabagging/neo-con/Republican fraud. Period.

July 28, 2012 at 6:28 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

In my above post I know I'm speaking broadly about a very specific and local issue, but given the nature of some of the comments that have preceded mine, I don't think I'm being too terribly off-topic. I hope not anyway. Of course, me being a liberal, I guess I always seem off-topic to the neo-cons. But that's to be expected, and I seldom feel the need to be apologetic to them for any reason, nor am I ever discouraged by their disdain. In fact I welcome it.

July 28, 2012 at 6:39 p.m.

Rickaroo, I'd say it's more like Bernie Madoff complaining about being ripped off by his auto mechanic.

But yes, all it would take is a commitment to providing the ID's first, then the restrictions. Of course poor Oregon won't be able to do anything, with their wacky vote-by-mail scheme.

July 28, 2012 at 7:26 p.m.
Dogwalker said...

The issue in Rhea County is NOT photo ID. The issue in Rhea County is that the Election Administrator, Theresa Snyder, is using a little known statute that says a person must be affiliated with a party to vote in that party's primary. She is picking certain people, challenging them, serving on the three judge panel, and denying them the right to vote. Even if the challenged people have swore allegiance to the Republican Party she is still denying them the right to vote. Each candidate in the Republican primary have voted Democratic in the past. Theresa Snyder admitted to the Herald News in 2007 that she has voted 4 times Democratic and 5 times Republican. I wonder if she has tried to vote yet this year and if she was denied her right. I highly doubt it. TBI is currently investigating this issue. Hopefully for the voters in Rhea County this will be stopped. The Republicans have no Democratic opponent in the General Election so this is basically the General Election for our district.

July 28, 2012 at 7:29 p.m.

Dogwalker, yes, but I think people are far too entrenched in their discussions over Photo ID to even give a bit of concern about those facts.

July 28, 2012 at 7:37 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

rickyroo: I'm doubting you even know what a neo-con is. True conservatives are not neocons. Bub.

July 28, 2012 at 7:40 p.m.

And yet you vote for them en masse, and do whatever they say.

July 28, 2012 at 7:46 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Bulbs, you got me there. I have to agree, your Bernie Madoff/auto mechanic analogy is a much better one.

Tu_q, the evidence of what happened in Florida is clear and abundant: there were thousands of Democratic votes that were not allowed to be counted, thanks to manipulation by pro-Bush operatives within the state, and the conservative Supreme Court ruling in favor of stopping the recount that many knew at the time to be going in Gore's favor. I'm not going to waste my time offering further proof to you about something that you're going to say is just "BS" anyway.

Scroll back up to the last two sentences of my last post. Never mind, I will repeat it here for you: "Of course, me being a liberal, I guess I always seem off-topic to the neo-cons. But that's to be expected, and I seldom feel the need to be apologetic to them for any reason, nor am I ever discouraged by their disdain. In fact I welcome it." That applies especially to you.

July 28, 2012 at 7:52 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

J_D, I don't think you know what a true conservative is. There is no such thing as a true conservative today. The GOP has been swallowed up by the extremist regressive thinking of the tea party and has completely lost sight of its former and truer conservative priniciples. Conservatives didn't used to hate government with such an irrational passion that they wanted to "shrink it down so small that you could drown it in the bathtub." - Norquist. Conservatives have always been for small government but they didn't look upon government as if it were entirely evil either. They used to think that government could actually serve a useful purpose and there was a spirit of true bipartisanship among the parties. True conservatives today are seeing the insanity of the tea party mindset and are having nothing to do with it. But the true conservatives apparently are remaining silent...or have become independent or something else.

BTW, seem to be good at coming up with a new avatar every few days. You think you might try to come up with something more original than that silly bwahahahaha? You've about run that into the ground, bub.

July 28, 2012 at 8:07 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I'll work on that, Ricky. BTW, you lefties like to talk about hi-jacked partys. Look no further than the Dems....Don't see any classic (or classy) liberals anymore. The radical left wing-nuts have taken over. BTW, I know a few tea-partiers, but I don't know one of them that hates the govt....You, Ricky, are blinded by leftist ideology. Nothing worse that a hack ideologue.

July 28, 2012 at 8:23 p.m.

Yeah, that's right, none of the Tea Party endorses the Sovereign Citizen movement.

July 28, 2012 at 8:28 p.m.
hambone said...

Yep. No common sence here, just wagging fingers on the keyboards!

July 28, 2012 at 8:35 p.m.

It's called Digital Calisthenics.

July 28, 2012 at 8:46 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

J_D, no extreme leftist agenda has taken over the Democratic party. Au contraire. Most of today's Democrats are even afraid of admitting to being a liberal, let alone acting like one. And most liberals I know are not wanting a socialistic/communistic/marxist form of government, like you teabaggers like to make everybody believe we do. In actuality we basically subscribe to the free market principles but we see the need for sensible controls and regulations to reign in the greed and self-interest of the monopolistic corporations. We do not hate business owners or rich people just because they happen to be business owners or rich people. What we hate is the runaway greed and the way that big business and the fat cats have taken over our government and are gaining more power and control, thanks in large part to the boot lickers like you who seem to worship the ground they walk on and keep supporting the policies that only give more wealth and more power to them.

We liberals are not calling for a more socialistic government; we're only trying to get back to the common sense policies that prevailed when we had a strong middle class, when you could work a blue collar job and make a decent living doing it, and when people saw the need for sensible controls, regulations, and social safety nets. The right wing has gone so far off the charts to the right that even moderate seems like an extremist left position to you guys.

If you want to call someone a "hack ideologue," just look in the mirror.

July 28, 2012 at 8:49 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Rickyroo. You're nothing, if not full of it.

July 28, 2012 at 9:39 p.m.
alprova said...

yu_quoque wrote: "The best course of action would be to cancel you screen name here and disappear forever or claim that your brain dead uncle posted that while you were out of the room."

This kind of comment is totally over the top and typing such sentiment toward anyone, for any reason, makes you a complete waste of space on this planet.

Clearly, you do not play well with others and your sole contribution on this and any other forum you inhabit is to jump on people's comments and to see just how much dookey you can stir up.

I am one person and I usually speak for no one but myself, and I have been content to ignore everything you type because you are so totally an anti-social creature, but after this comment, I am asking others to join me in refusing to indulge you in your orgasmic pleasure of ripping people apart for fun.

Most of the people who frequent this forum may find themselves in disagreement some or most of the time, but for the most part, disagreements are kept to a civil level. There is absolutely no reason on Earth for the kind of comment you offered to Rickaroo.

I urge everyone to please refrain from responding to anything that tu_quoque writes, no matter how inflammitory it becomes. When this person no longer receives the attention it craves, it will seek life elsewhere.

This person is a common internet troll, who constantly seeks to ire people by any means necessary. When you respond in kind, or acknowledge a thing it writes, it wins.

Please...please...don't feed the trolls.

July 28, 2012 at 10:12 p.m.
hambone said...

Al, he is the definition of a internet troll.

July 28, 2012 at 10:23 p.m.

Hmm, how much does Social Security pay for funerals again?

July 28, 2012 at 11:42 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Always impressed with tu_quoque's command of all things SCOTUS. Except for that instance in which she tried to actually predict what the court would do, and did an awkward face plant (not that there's a graceful faceplant) with regard to Obamacare's constitutionality. I bet she has a John Roberts dartboard. She's really good at citing past cases... not so good at understanding the complexities of the job. Hopefully, she can get a fresh start with some confirmed nominees during her President's second term.

July 28, 2012 at 11:57 p.m.
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