published Sunday, November 18th, 2012

Dr. DesJarlais

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Don't worry, it's fine. No questions need to be asked about his character, all of his misbehavior was just because he LOVED this country too much.

November 18, 2012 at 12:15 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

So he's a doosh. What's to argue about?

November 18, 2012 at 12:21 a.m.
lightkeeper said...

Now just throw in the rest of some of these hypocrite lunatic conservatives on that exam table with DesJarlais and their pimp daddy NRA lobbyist wiggling on top along with a few tea baggers and this picture will be complete.

November 18, 2012 at 12:48 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

Ha.

Dr Clinton and the Drs Kennedy use the same table?

Dr DJ, repent of adultery and of murdering a few little babies. Liberals, repent of hypocrisy--holding others to standards to which you do not hold yourselves--and of favoring the unlimited murder (except by DJ) of a million little babies a year in the US, well over 40 million since a certain 7-2 injustice.

November 18, 2012 at 2:19 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Andrew Lohr, who are you to tell anyone to repent? You act like you're friggin' Jeezus or something. I or anyone could just as easily tell you to repent of your disgusting self-righteousness. No one is so holy or pure that he should dare to tell others to repent of anything. Just shut up and tend to your own sins - particularly that of your obnoxious and arrogant self-righteousness.

November 18, 2012 at 4:02 a.m.
lightkeeper said...

AndrewLohr there you conservatives go with half truths and made up assumptions. You racists hypocrite Republicans have a hell of a lot more to repent of then we do, who do you think you are? that lunatic Pat Robinson? All liberals don't agree with abortion, as a matter of fact none that I know of do. Sounds like you need to hop on the exam table with the rest of the liers.

November 18, 2012 at 4:13 a.m.
alprova said...

I have no direct concern with with whether or not Representative Dejarlais continues to represent the people of his district, but I'll offer my opinion anyway.

The silence coming from him and his fellow Republicans is quite deafening. Mind you, what he has done in his past is not surprising to me. People are people and everyone, and I do mean everyone, has some skeletons lingering in their closets.

Clearly, what he did is well enough in his past that he has had ample time to have atoned to God for what he did and as we know, everyone makes mistakes throughout the course of their lives.

It's very hard to not look at this man as a hypocrite for one very simple reason. Unless I have missed it, he has at every opportunity afforded him, failed to adequately admit to his past, number one, and secondly, he has failed to offer publicly that he is no longer the kind of man today who would enter into adulterous affairs or would seek to destroy his offspring for frivolous reasons.

The above failures leaves a lasting impression that the man may not be worthy to represent the interests of those who elected a pro-life, family values espousing candidate.

The failure on the part of his fellow Republican politicians to publicly come out against the man, all of whom claim to be pro-life, family values candidates in their own right, is equally deafening testimony to a level of hypocrisy that cannot be overlooked as well.

I take any and all claims by candidates that they have lived exemplar lives with a grain of salt, for I know that no one is without sin while they live on Earth, but when one's past is exposed to the degree that this man's past has been outed, decorum demands something...anything...in response, to indicate that the man has changed his ways.

I haven't seen anything indicating that the man is any different today than he was a decade ago. And that is a sad state of affairs for a man elected to represent the people of his district.

November 18, 2012 at 4:19 a.m.
alprova said...

AndrewLohr wrote: "Dr Clinton and the Drs Kennedy use the same table?"

Sir, with what little respect you deserve, Bill Clinton is no longer in office and whichever Kennedy you are referring to is dead. Your comparisons are grossly invalid and irrelevant because as far as I know, none of them claimed moral superiority over others.

"Liberals, repent of hypocrisy--holding others to standards to which you do not hold yourselves--and of favoring the unlimited murder (except by DJ) of a million little babies a year in the US, well over 40 million since a certain 7-2 injustice."

I seem to recall that you were willing to completely overlook Dr. Dejarlais's personal record on both, if he was willing "to vote less badly" than his Democratic opponent.

You're as hypocritical as those you accuse of being the same. Apparently, if they are a Republican, you hold them to a different standard yourself.

You, like every other conservative anti-abortion idiot, makes the assumption that every single Liberal is a-okay with "murdering little babies," and that assumption is pure crap. There are many Liberals who value life, but who see that there are certain realities involved when making personal decision to deliver or to terminate a pregnancy.

I'll tell you this much -- Liberals are adamantly opposed to hypocrites like yourself for instance, who have the desire to utilize the power of Government to control the reproductive organs of any and all women, when not a one of you is willing to provide the funding needed to sustain the life of any child forced to be born, for up to 18 years of their life.

It's really a waste of time to argue with people like yourself, because you're never going to be allowed to seize the control of every American women's reproductive organs, and you're going to remain as self-righteous, ignorant, and totally hypocritical as you always have been.

November 18, 2012 at 4:47 a.m.
328Kwebsite said...

What, no stirrups?

Republican Representative Scott Desjarlais accepted $960,000 in Citizens United style superpac money during the 2010 campaign. All the while, he lied to his supporters about his views, his history, and his ability to carry out public policy. Apparently, he didn't think Republicans themselves were smart enough to figure it out. Republicans have re-elected a national embarrassment to Tennessee.

Don't worry, Republicans: he won't resign.

November 18, 2012 at 4:58 a.m.
Reardon said...

Jesus, Clay -- could you be any more offensive?

So what he needs a queen size bed because he weighs 500 pounds?

November 18, 2012 at 6:38 a.m.
rolando said...

The Progressives so dearly LOVE their sex scandals; meanwhile, the White House dithers while Rome burns.

Isn't it time for another another vacation for Ms BubbleButt and the two Wannabes? Or another golf outing with maybe a few hoops thrown in? Anything but governing, evidently.

November 18, 2012 at 7:17 a.m.
WHS1970 said...

4 more years rolando. 4 more years!!!

November 18, 2012 at 7:29 a.m.
fairmon said...

Impossible to happen but just thinking a truly bipartisan ticket in an election would be John Edwards with Dejarlais as his VP. Gets him out of congress, keeps Edwards out of the senate and gives Americans a chance to kick the crap out of both of them. Edwards was rejected as a viable candidate and apparently didn't try to convince the other woman to have an abortion. He has publicly admitted he made poor choices and lied about it.

I haven't seen where this turkey has admitted anything or express any remorse regarding his worse than poor past decisions, that he has seen the light, shed tears and apologize. A good politician can tear up on cue.

Some would suggest no one outside that district should be concerned. Everyone needs to be concerned if there is reason to doubt the credibility of an elected official. A 10% approval rating of congress suggest there may be good reason to suspect around 480 of them?

November 18, 2012 at 7:39 a.m.
moonpie said...

It is refreshing to see some historically conservative commenters here not defend someone or to divert attention to another topic just because they agree with his politics.

The guy should lose his license. If he'd admitted all of this, he'd probably have been reelected, given the "our bad guys are better than your good guys mentality" so many people have these days (on both sides).

November 18, 2012 at 8:03 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

There's a good reason DesJarlais' medical nickname is Dr. Strangeglove.

November 18, 2012 at 8:20 a.m.
ricardo said...

Dr. D vehemently opposes abortion, except in cases of rape, incest, or when the life of the woman is in danger........ and when you get your patients pregnant.

November 18, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Strangeglove! LOL A little 'lay'tex probably would've kept him out of trouble.

His pathetic story is outweighed only by the sniveling, pontificating pigs who voted for him and support him. If they had any true decency they would jack his a$$ out of office, especially considering that it's a lock for them around here. As long as this moral mosh pit hangs around, local conservatives have no high ground to stand on. These folks, by leaving DJScotty in office, are making a mockery of God, as they pretend to praise Him and beg for His mercy. What say, conservatives? Are you gonna gut this goat or continue to spit in the face of the Lord? C'mon y'all! Let's secede from the unholy union you foisted upon us. Hey, did he suck on that gun barrel before, after, or between abortions? Just think, a little twitch and you all may have been able to dodge the hypocrite label!

November 18, 2012 at 9:25 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: ever vicious, ever childish. grow up, man. get out more.

November 18, 2012 at 9:34 a.m.
fairmon said...

People like Desjarlais would push abortion back to unsanitary, untrained, coat hanger using abortionist just to gain political popularity and votes from those of that same out of sight out of mind not happening mentality.

Some similar examples are:

o The war on drugs is being lost badly making criminals and cartels wealthy while over crowding expensive prisons but instead of controlling that which we cannot eliminate we stay with the same losing tactics.

o There has been prostitution through out recorded history so we spend major law enforcement money fighting it while making pimps wealthy and allowing women to be abused. We cannot see how controlling that which we cannot eliminate through regulation and taxation would be a better tactic.

o We have a police the world and convert them to our style of government mentality which has essentially bankrupt the country. We have those that insist a strong offense is the best defense. We keep chasing that elusive rainbow and pot of gold believing that in time "those people" will see the light....why?

o The government must take a larger share from those few that are successful since there is no will to enable more to be successful. Both parties are thinking, be patient and people will accept the higher unemployment number as normal and to be expected. In time people will accept being primarily a service oriented economy with the gap between lower paying jobs and the higher levels. Success is those with more than me so don't tax me tax that man behind the tree and give some of his to me.

How much proof does it take to confirm the definition of insanity?

Should I have to give up my I-phone, I-pad, large screen TV new car, eating out often and other pleasures to buy my own insurance? How inconsiderate can you be plus it may hurt the economy you know?

November 18, 2012 at 9:45 a.m.

AndrewLohr, to repent of something, you need to admit to it, not deny it. Then you have to say it was wrong. Where can I find DesJarlais making such statements?

Do keep trying to complain of hypocrisy on the part of Democrats in order to disguise your own. See pointing out how somebody else doesn't live up to their professed standards which they don't live up to...doesn't mean you endorse those standards, in fact, that's rejecting such a standard.

But I don't know of any liberals or Democrats who believe in the idea of unlimited access to Abortion under any and all circumstances. Most of us are quite willing to accept reasonable restrictions.

Ireland's restrictions, now, those weren't reasonable, and they got a woman killed.

rolando, oh please, if the President were to do anything, you'd be complaining about the Lame Duck Congress instead.

Which isn't even in session.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/ds/h1122.html

Ouch. I guess they aren't intending to do any work.

harp3339, sadly it seems people always seem to blame everybody else's Congressional Representative, since in-district ratings tend to be a bit higher.

November 18, 2012 at 9:49 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_: ever dull, ever brief by necessity. Get some exercise, man.

November 18, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.
jdavid said...

Don't be so hard on the Doctor- He was an embarrassment to Tennessee long before all this came out. The fact that you re-elected him says a lot more about you. You are the problem- you had one of the best Congressmen in the country and kicked him out for this lying piece of dog crap. He really does represent your values. Keep him - you deserve each other

November 18, 2012 at 9:59 a.m.
patriot1 said...

I agree with Jack...he is a doosh, however; he was re-elected by a fairly wide margin in spite of the efforts of the Chattanooga Times and Bennett. Chip Forrester, et al, should concentrate on some self examination and how best to select senate candidates.

November 18, 2012 at 10:05 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Patients should bring a blacklight to Dr. Strangeglove Desjarlais' private office to see what glows.

There's more psychedelic colors than the bedspreads at the East Ridge Econolodge.

November 18, 2012 at 10:05 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Wonder if the doctor's office passed out buttons to patients saying, "I've been DesJarlaid."

November 18, 2012 at 10:07 a.m.
dude_abides said...

patriot1 said... "I agree with Jack..."

Shocking news, pat1. A republican candidate could be caught at the zoo fellating a chimp and you people would vote for him.

November 18, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

harp3339, sadly it seems people always seem to blame everybody else's Congressional Representative, since in-district ratings tend to be a bit higher.

hwtnb....This is very true.

November 18, 2012 at 10:23 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Well, that damn Oburma's headed to Myanmar to give aid and comfort to them crazy Muslims... wait, they're Buddhists... so it's a Buddhy call! Still, he shouldn't be supportive of them Islamraeli's bombing Gazaland.

November 18, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.
miraweb said...

Black Thanksgiving Launches Strikes


Want fewer people on public assistance? Start with Walmart.


The news comes amid controversy about plans by Walmart and other large chains to open on Thanksgiving evening, kicking off Black Friday a day early. It also comes as another strike has hit part of Walmart's warehouse supply chain in southern California.

At least 30 workers from six different Seattle-area Walmarts have gone on strike, organisers and Walmart staff from the OUR Walmart group said. The group, which is not a union but has close ties with the labour movement, is seeking to protest what it says is low pay, too few hours and retaliation by managers against workers who speak out.

Seattle Walmart worker Sara Gilbert said she had taken the decision to go on strike to protest the fact that she could only make around $14,000 dollars a year. Despite working as a customer service manager, she said, her family remained reliant on food stamps and other benefits. "I work full time at the richest company in the world," she said.

The Seattle strike is aimed at kickstarting a series of protests in the run-up to Black Friday, when more than a thousand separate demonstrations ranging from walk-outs to leafleting to flash mobs are planned. So far they are set to hit Walmart stores in Illinois, Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Washington DC.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/15/walmart-walkout-action-black-friday

November 18, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dayton123: re the East Ridge EconoLodge...That would be your area of expertise, I suspect.

November 18, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.

miraweb, I've actually heard some people who think that those employees are selfish, don't they realize that Wal-Mart has money to make off the shopping, why can't they work that one day?

I guess they think it's about the holiday, and not the overall treatment, or that the employees will get a share of those profits.

November 18, 2012 at 11:39 a.m.
ricardo said...

Employees also make good consumers, unless you don't pay them a living wage.

November 18, 2012 at 11:46 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jack_Dennis said...

"dayton123: re the East Ridge EconoLodge...That would be your area of expertise, I suspect."

Just guessing from driving by the parking lot at lunchtime at the number of "Honk if you love Jesus", "Red, White, and Rush", and "God is Pro-life" bumper-stickers.

Or was that DeJarlias' driveway?

November 18, 2012 at 11:50 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I was gonna say it was an unusual post for you, not insulting religion, but you got to that quickly.

November 18, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jack_Dennis said...

I was gonna say it was an unusual post for you, not insulting religion, but you got to that quickly."

Hypocritical Christians make it so easy to do.

November 18, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.
ricardo said...

Insulting your religion is voting for (or supporting) someone who says one thing but does another regarding a fundamental tenet of your religion.

November 18, 2012 at 12:13 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Dooley: You are dismissed.

November 18, 2012 at 1:11 p.m.
dude_abides said...

The Gaytheist Republican apparently can think of some things less distasteful than chimp sex, and tars all of 'conservativedom' with the same louse ridden brush.

Amazing how the biggest, and damn near only, win for the local conservatives this cycle was getting Dr. Aborto elected! What a pathetic outcome for you hard core fools.

November 18, 2012 at 1:59 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Harp3339, you ask, "How much proof does it take to confirm the definition of insanity?" Well, the last couple of paragraphs in your 9:45 a.m. post pretty much confirm your own insanity. Or if not insanity, your penchant for spouting pure nonsense.

Among your "gems" of wisdom: "The government must take a larger share from those few that are successful since there is no will to enable more to be successful. Both parties are thinking, be patient and people will accept the higher unemployment number as normal and to be expected."

The only party that is content with the high unemployment rate is the GOP. They love to see it stay high because it reflects badly on Obama, and they would rather see Obama fail than see the country and the economy prosper. He won re-election regardless of Republican enmity and obstruction but I'm sure they're not going to let up in the least throughout his second term.

As for there being no "will to enable more to be successful," you act as if the people on unemployment now are completely happy and content scraping by on crumbs and all they want are more crumbs. You seem to conveniently forget that we are still mired in a deep recession and there are few if any good jobs available. The people who were not affected, or affected only slightly by this recession, seem to be unable to realize just how severely it affected so many people. The vast majority of those on unemployment are not asking for hand-outs (expecting the super-rich to pay only a few percentage points higher on their taxes, which are historically at practically their lowest rates ever, is NOT asking for hand-outs). I guarantee you, if there were decent jobs to be had, other than working at Walmart or McDonald’s for minimum wage, the unemployment numbers would shrink drastically. Sure, there are some people who will always be content with the bare minimum but most people want to work, contribute, and have a better all-around quality of life than just getting by on food stamps, welfare, or a meager unemployment check.

November 18, 2012 at 2:21 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Harp (continued)...

Another "gem" of yours: "In time people will accept being primarily a service oriented economy with the gap between lower paying jobs and the higher levels. Success is those with more than me so don't tax me tax that man behind the tree and give some of his to me."

We have already reached that point! Sadly, have become accustomed to thinking that an employee in the service sector does not deserve to be paid more than a pitiful minimum wage. In fact most right wingers argue that even minimum wage is too much! The truth is that if the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation over the years, it would and should be above $10/hr. now. What is insane is thinking that it's perfectly normal and fair for a CEO to be making over 200 times what he/she did 30 years ago while a common laborer's wages have remained static and even dropped (in relation to the rise in cost of living) over that same time period.

And then there is this little pearl of wisdom from you: "Should I have to give up my I-phone, I-pad, large screen TV new car, eating out often and other pleasures to buy my own insurance? How inconsiderate can you be plus it may hurt the economy you know?"

Your sarcasm is noted, your point well made, but your reasoning ridiculous. Health insurance premiums are sky high today. For many people it's not just a matter of sacrificing a large screen TV or an I-phone to be able to buy insurance. In many cases health insurance costs as much as or more than the mortgage on their house! That should not be, especially when so many of the cost factors making it so high are profit margins and administrative costs. It is insane to keep pushing health insurance as a commodity on the free market. My health, or the health of any of us, should not be in the hands of some private insurance company whose bottom line is making a profit.

Like so many others, you seem to insulate yourself in your bubble of complacency. You think because you are comfortable and haven't been affected as adversely as others that you have done something right or you have been smarter or worked harder or something. Indeed you might have made some wise decisions along the way but luck is always a factor for all of us, too. Your smugness is despicable and it will bite you in the butt one day.

November 18, 2012 at 2:23 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Police are looking for two suspects who broke into a Boise, Idaho, zoo and apparently beat a monkey to death. The break-in at Zoo Boise occurred early Saturday. A security guard told officers he spotted two males in dark clothing, one inside the zoo grounds and the other outside the fence near the primate exhibit. When the suspects saw the guard, they ran. Police searched the 11-acre zoo, including one sweep with a thermal imager, but did not find the suspects. During the search, officers and zoo employees found a Patas monkey lying next to the perimeter fence near the primate exhibit where the suspects were last seen. The monkey appeared to have a head injury and died a short time later. Detectives collected blood evidence at the scene that's being tested to determine if it's blood from the monkey or a human.
"It's very disturbing that someone would intentionally break into the zoo and harm an animal. We're doing all we can to find who did this." said Sgt. Ted Snyder of the Boise Police Department.

OMG, tu_, you were serious! Better check that ape for republican DNA deposits.

November 18, 2012 at 2:45 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

After effectively barring conservative columnist Ann Coulter from speaking on campus last week, the Jesuit college Fordham University welcomed infanticide and bestiality advocate Peter Singer for a panel discussion on Friday.

According to Fordham’s media relations website, Singer, a tenured Princeton bioethics professor, spoke from 4 to 6 p.m. in a panel the university promised “will provoke Christians to think about other animals in new ways.”

Singer has long lamented the societal stigma against having sex with animals.

NOW THAT'S THE LIBS FOR YOU. Could dayton/darwin be the results of one of those unions??

November 18, 2012 at 2:59 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jack_Dennis uttered: Could dayton/darwin be the results of one of those unions??

Perhaps according to your mother who says I'm a beast; you can call me Pap!

November 18, 2012 at 3:17 p.m.
jesse said...

Darwin doesn't realize it but he's a TRUE BELIEVER too!

Along w/ 90% of the folks on here!

November 18, 2012 at 3:20 p.m.
miraweb said...

It is funny how many businesses think that it must be "more efficient" to fail to provide a solid pay and benefits package to their staffs.

It really becomes a problem of "squeezing the balloon."

Company A saves a little on wages - and Companies B, C, and D pay more taxes to cover food stamps and health care going to Company A's employees.

Companies B,C, and D start protesting about the government "redistributing" their money and Company A laughs all the way to the bank.

Capitalize the profits! Socialize the costs!

November 18, 2012 at 3:23 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

jesse said...

"Darwin doesn't realize it but he's a TRUE BELIEVER too!"

Only a true believer in science and reason until presented with evidence to the contrary. Then I'm perfectly capable of changing my mind.

As I was once a conservative christian creationist until I learned better at age 14, though I did give up the notions of Tooth Fairies and Santa Claus by age 6. Just took a while longer to see through the absurdities of an inerrant Bible and a fanciful God.

November 18, 2012 at 3:28 p.m.

Jack_Dennis, actually, the University did not ban her. The group inviting her told her not to come.

http://www.fordhamobserver.com/college-republicans-cancel-ann-coulter-event/

Here's what the university president did say:

The College Republicans, a student club at Fordham University, has invited Ann Coulter to speak on campus on November 29. The event is funded through student activity fees and is not open to the public nor the media. Student groups are allowed, and encouraged, to invite speakers who represent diverse, and sometimes unpopular, points of view, in keeping with the canons of academic freedom. Accordingly, the University will not block the College Republicans from hosting their speaker of choice on campus.

To say that I am disappointed with the judgment and maturity of the College Republicans, however, would be a tremendous understatement. There are many people who can speak to the conservative point of view with integrity and conviction, but Ms. Coulter is not among them. Her rhetoric is often hateful and needlessly provocative—more heat than light—and her message is aimed squarely at the darker side of our nature.

As members of a Jesuit institution, we are called upon to deal with one another with civility and compassion, not to sling mud and impugn the motives of those with whom we disagree or to engage in racial or social stereotyping. In the wake of several bias incidents last spring, I told the University community that I hold out great contempt for anyone who would intentionally inflict pain on another human being because of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or creed.

“Disgust” was the word I used to sum up my feelings about those incidents. Hate speech, name-calling, and incivility are completely at odds with the Jesuit ideals that have always guided and animated Fordham.

Still, to prohibit Ms. Coulter from speaking at Fordham would be to do greater violence to the academy, and to the Jesuit tradition of fearless and robust engagement. Preventing Ms. Coulter from speaking would counter one wrong with another. The old saw goes that the answer to bad speech is more speech. This is especially true at a university, and I fully expect our students, faculty, alumni, parents, and staff to voice their opposition, civilly and respectfully, and forcefully.

The College Republicans have unwittingly provided Fordham with a test of its character: do we abandon our ideals in the face of repugnant speech and seek to stifle Ms. Coulter’s (and the student organizers’) opinions, or do we use her appearance as an opportunity to prove that our ideas are better and our faith in the academy—and one another—stronger? We have chosen the latter course, confident in our community, and in the power of decency and reason to overcome hatred and prejudice.

I'm sure you could ask to be invited instead. Why look at the factual nature of your response here!

November 18, 2012 at 3:55 p.m.
jesse said...

Hey Darwin, true believin ain't JUST about religion! Take Alrova for example<he's a true believer in Obama! TuQu is a true believer in contempt! Nooga is a true believer in being an azzhole!

All kindsa true believers!!(Clay Bennett is a true believer in mediocre cartoons!!LOL!)(most of the time!)

November 18, 2012 at 4:07 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jesse, You are correct that true believers aren't just religionists.

One of the best books on the subject, as relevant today as when it was written in 1951, is Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer" subtitled "Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements."

There's little difference between the true believers in the State and the true believers in orthodox religion.

November 18, 2012 at 4:12 p.m.

Not to mention the true believers in the libertarian-anarchist religion, or the free-market religion, or whatever else you care to name.

November 18, 2012 at 4:32 p.m.
jesse said...

Or the anti- libertarian-anarchist free market religion!

When you close your mind and decide that your way is the only way and anybody that has a diff.view is an idiot! Then you become a True Believer!

November 18, 2012 at 4:40 p.m.
dude_abides said...

The Desjarlais case is a prime example (are you listening, true Christians?) of how much the republican party really cares about the issues it hangs it's hat on. The silence recorded in today's TFP article is deafening and disgusting. This is why God will kick them square in the nuts when they try to enter the Hizzie of the Lord.

November 18, 2012 at 4:55 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

jesse kickin some butt on here today.

November 18, 2012 at 4:59 p.m.

jesse, of course what's really foolish is to get so caught up in the idea that "thinking you have the only way" is bad that you don't want to say somebody else is wrong.

For example, this case involving DesJarlais.

Which many Republicans do want to try to turn around and use to attack Democrats, but that only shows the weakness of their position and reveals their own hypocrisy.

The truth is we are capable of making judgments, and that is an essential component of human interaction. To be aware that there are perils with making some judgments is to be cautious, but not to be aware of the need to make judgments is also foolish.

November 18, 2012 at 5:35 p.m.
alprova said...

Deadline passes on recount; Murphy presumed victor

FORT PIERCE, Fla. – Election officials missed a deadline Sunday to report results of a two-day recount in GOP Rep. Allen West's race to remain in Congress, apparently sealing unofficial results giving the win to Democrat Patrick Murphy.

St. Lucie County did not meet a noon cutoff to finish processing 37,379 ballots cast early in the District 18 congressional election. Under Florida law, previously submitted results favoring Murphy will be certified unless an emergency exemption is granted by the state.

"They did this recount because they weren't confident in the outcome," said West campaign manager Tim Edson. "Now, because they missed the deadline, we're not going to know whether they were right in their concern or not."

Read the rest at: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/18/recount-in-west-race-continues-into-sunday/#ixzz2CcKx505w

Another Tea-Party wingnut...gone.

November 18, 2012 at 5:50 p.m.

alprova, I'm sure he'll find a job on Fox News where he'll rail against Communists and offer to produce a list of names.

November 18, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

DesJarlais might well have changed his life over the years but the fact is that he has never - not publicly at least - owned up to any of his mistakes or transgressions. Quite the contrary, he has persisted in blaming the Democrats for engaging in a smear campaign, when in fact it is his own repugnant past behavior that has caught up with him. If he fessed up and admitted his wrongdoings, including the hypocrisy of his stance on abortion in light of his past behavior, we would not even be having this discussion. But even so, his crossing the line of patient/doctor ethics was enough to at least get him barred from practicing medicine again, regardless of whatever political fallout anyone thinks he deserves or doesn't deserve. The guy acts as if he's immune from his own disgusting behavior and doesn't even seem to think he's done anything wrong. He's a scum-wad, a slimy pig, and he deserves every bit of rebuke and criticism he's been getting.

November 18, 2012 at 6:47 p.m.
cmon_man said...

he was just gettin" Des Jar Laid.... leave Uncle Fester alone or he may try to blow you up!

November 18, 2012 at 7:02 p.m.
dude_abides said...

TU_RDumbass asks with pouty mouth and raised unibrow,

"...However is a life lived in the pursuit of a moral life but inevitably destined to failure of less value than a life that makes no such attempt and is completely and successfully accomplished.(?)"

Maybe you're on to something here, tu_! Let's ask all the people who've been put to death by the State... oh, wait. God didn't give us the introspective impulse in time! F*ck em.

November 18, 2012 at 7:03 p.m.
alprova said...

Tu-quoque wrote: "All of this activity occurred about twelve years ago and since then he has divorced his first wife and remarried. I have not read nor heard of any instances where he has repeated any of those types of behavior since that period. In fact he seems to have led a very straight life since then so does anyone have any details that counter that assumption? Now would be an excellent time to expose them."

"I also assume that Christians believe in moral redemption. If he has truly rejected those earlier failings would they be remiss in accepting that he has changed his life style and truly believes and adheres to the moral philosophies he now espouses."

Here's the thing. He could clear all the controversy up in one minute if he would make a public statement distancing himself from his former past. He could claim to have atoned for his past sins with God.

BUT HE HAS NOT CLAIMED TO HAVE DONE EITHER.

His only public statements have been to blame others for outing his past. He has described the outings of his past "dirty politics." That's it. He's admitted to some of the details of his past, but I'm simply amazed that he has offered nothing...nothing at all, to suggest that he has changed one bit from the man he was a decade ago.

"I know you Fleabaggers love to rant on about the fact your opponents fail to live up to their professed moral standards. However is a life lived in the pursuit of a moral life but inevitably destined to failure of less value than a life that makes no such attempt and is completely and successfully accomplished."

If someone wants to represent themselves as someone who is morally superior when they are anything but, let then shovel dirt for a living. People could care less about the moral beliefs of a dirt shoveler.

The man held himself out to be a family values political candidate, who has promoted, if not had a direct hand in aborting his own offspring, apparently repeatedly.

He has had multiple affairs outside of marriage. He has had multiple divorces of marriage due to infidelity.

All of these things are in his past, but he has not once, to the best of my knowledge, ever made so much as one statement offering that he is no longer the man that he was back then.

To think that this man has any hand in introducing and/or voting for or against any legislation that encompasses moral issues, is offensive to an extreme.

I can overlook and forgive people for their past transgressions, IF THEY OWN UP TO THEM RESPONSIBLY AND RESPECTFULLY. But from all appearances, this man is thumbing his nose at everyone and intends to go forward without addressing his past to a soul.

I too have no dog in any hunt related to his continued representation, but I am deeply disturbed by the fact that the man will be in Washington and that he has been enabled to continue to practice his apparent and outrageous hypocrisy.

November 18, 2012 at 7:03 p.m.
ricardo said...

Rickaroo, Republicans don't make mistakes nor do they have to admit them because it's all a vast left wing media conspiracy to assassinate their character, even though in this case Dr. D. pulled the trigger himself.

November 18, 2012 at 7:07 p.m.

ricardo, you got that right, Republicans and Conservatives think of themselves as the victims, and any criticism to them, why that's persecution.

November 18, 2012 at 7:19 p.m.
fairmon said...

rickaroo said...

The vast majority of those on unemployment are not asking for hand-outs.

Your speed reading or comprehension skills let you down.How do you read "there is no [political] will to enable more [people] to be successful. I agree with you but I think both parties have their head under their arm and are not aggressively doing those things that would enable people to get a good job. Washington thinks they have a fiscal cliff, what about those people with families whose unemployment is soon running out and not being extended. THAT is a fiscal cliff.

You also opined...

Another "gem" of yours: "In time people will accept being primarily a service oriented economy with the gap between lower paying jobs and the higher levels.

you responded with...

We have already reached that point! plus other good points.

Again you failed to see that I was criticizing those in congress and the administration for that attitude. I don't give a rip what the rich are taxed it will not help those that need a decent job, it is all talk and show. No CEO, athlete or hedge fund manager are worth the vulgar amount they are paid. .

I accept that you think Obama is the messiah which you have a perfect right to do. I Have the right to think he is as dumb as a rock regarding economics but I didn't like Romney's plan either. They both have commitments and owe favors to big money.

Adjustments to the personal tax structure being a help to the economy is a myth. Take away all business deductions and other tax manipulation then set a firm rate of 15-17% paid with no adjustments. This would be predictable and help both the business and consumers.

I have a hell of a lot more empathy for those that are ready, willing and able to work with no decent jobs available than any politician looking for a camera so they can recite their talking points. I don't care who is taxed how much but if you are among those thinking it will help you are as naive as a teen that has not yet experienced the real world.

Have you written, called and let your elected members of congress know you want to see action that will create good private sector job opportunities.

November 18, 2012 at 7:30 p.m.
fairmon said...

In trying to understand 4th district voters it appeared they may have needed a doc (proctoloigist) of a-holes and wound up with a doc that is an a-hole. During the campaign peole listen poorly and the sound bite saying that a-hole doc is running again peole thought they were talking about a doc that doctored a-holes and he was a republican so they voted for him. Or, he had an opponent that was sho nuff bad news.

November 18, 2012 at 7:38 p.m.
ricardo said...

From Congressman DesJarlais' website (today):

"Abortion – All life should be cherished and protected. We are pro-life."

http://www.scottdesjarlais.com/issues/

November 18, 2012 at 8:27 p.m.

ah tu_quoque still failing in reading comprehension, aren't you?

See the line about "safe and legal" abortion? It references the decision in Roe V. Wade that does establish some framework to it.

I guess they needed to be a bit more precise and explicit so people like you could understand it, but no, you'd still find a way to twist and distort what they said to suit your rhetorical agenda.

As usual.

ricardo, so let's see who has the absolutist policy here?

November 18, 2012 at 8:32 p.m.
dude_abides said...

tu_ said... "I apply a rational test for accepting other people’s claims of their personal behavior. I base it on observed performance..."

WTF does that mean? Do you put a camera on them? A private detective? What an asinine statement!

tu_ also said... "You Libtards should really be cautious when dealing with used car salesmen."

I'd say right wing "doctors" would be a more immediate threat.

November 18, 2012 at 8:53 p.m.
alprova said...

Tu_quoque wrote: "AlBaby Supports The Suppression Of Votes:"

The votes in dispute have been counted, twice. He lost, twice.

"Obviously those racists in St. Lucie County suppressed the vote counting so as to miss the deadline and permit the white Libtard candidate to appear to have won the election."

That's his claim alright, but then that's not the first time that the reverse race card has been played by the man. He thinks because he is a black Republican, that he has been consistently persecuted. The notion is rather silly.

"West was the first black Republican Congressman from Florida since 1876 and the Libtards just couldn’t let that stand."

Isn't it funny how for years, the Republicans have dominated Florida politics, and more importantly, the election process in Florida, but now, even though Republicans are still in charge in Florida, it's the Democrats who have thwarted the results in a single district?

It's the same argument offered about the media. Whenever a Republican is President, more people believe the media to favor Republicans. When a Democrat is President, the media is magically Liberal.

"When the county recounted three days of early voting West was able to close the gap on his opponent and if this recount had been completed he may have closed the gap enough to have all of the votes recounted."

You are not in any position to begin to know that and you know it. There have been two recounts of the early votes. The first one only closed the gap by a few hundred votes -- no enough to trigger a full recount.

"He still has about a week and a half to continue to contest the election so he hasn’t officially lost it yet. However the Libtard racists will be doing their best to eliminate a black man that has gone off the plantation."

It's all over but the crying. Florida will certify the results as they stand today.

November 18, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"I accept that you think Obama is the messiah which you have a perfect right to do." - harp3339

I find it amusing that we libs who defend Obama against the irrational and unmitigated hatred of those who, well, hate him so irrationally, are always getting accused of worshiping him. I have never, in any of my posts, so much as suggested that I think of Obama as a "messiah." Maybe you should check your own reading comprehension skills. Most libs I know, myself included, have mixed feelings about him and don't even come close to thinking of him in any saintly or divine way. I disagree with his stances on many things - his refusal to close Gitmo, his lukewarm attitude towards getting out of Afghanistan and Iraq, his free hand in the use of drones, his signing of the National Defense Authorization Act, his extension of the Patriot Act, his silence on global warming, and his obstinate refusal to consider an alternative to the wasteful, crippling "war on drugs." I came very close to not even voting for him this time, but I knew that my vote for a 3rd party candidate would be wasted, and the thought of Romney as our president scared the hell out of me. Whatever Obama does, regarding the economy or foreign policy, it certainly won't usher in utopia but at least I don't think he will bring about total ruin, like I think Romney might well have done...and quickly.

November 18, 2012 at 10:23 p.m.

Rickaroo, Conservatives and Republicans are the only ones who attach a religious quality to Obama. They see him as the anti-thesis and so need to think somebody who doesn't feel the way they do must worship him.

It's part of their mindset. They just can't see the times where actual concern about Obama being a center-right leader is expressed, they're blinded to that, and must make him out to be the most leftist Communist Socialist Marxist Anti-Colonial Kenyan they can imagine up.

tu_quoque, keep ignoring what they actually said, and manufacturing your own interpretation of it.

The only people who have an absolutist idea of abortions are on the right-wing.

Maybe that's your problem, you're stuck with the mental association that anybody who doesn't share your position must have the exact opposite.

Reality is still the liberals are comfortable with due and appropriate regulation, under sane laws and regulations, and not demanding the absolute right to murder babies, and no matter how many times irate and hysterical conservative pundits make that claim, the latter will always be a lie.

And an obvious one.

But hey, don't worry, I'm sure you can twist some more words. I remember that attempt to twist "Voting is the best revenge" into some kind of hateful statement. Heck I remember your dogged insistence that a paper which was quoting a report from a government agency was somehow expressing an opinion of its own.

That made me laugh too.

Why are you so hilarious? Do you take lessons from joneses?

November 18, 2012 at 10:59 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

Brothers and sisters, I would like to invite y'all down to the Sword of the Lord Full-Gospel Pentecostal Holiness Church. This week we will have a special sermon presented by brother Andrew Lohr entitled "If you don't love Jesus, go to hell!"

FYI: Wednesday night services are B.Y.O.S.(bring your own snake).

November 19, 2012 at 12:37 a.m.
fairmon said...

rickaroo response...

I have never, in any of my posts, so much as suggested that I think of Obama as a "messiah." Maybe you should check your own reading comprehension skills.

rickaroo, you are right Please accept my apology. I did what I accused you of and reached a conclusion that wasn't stated.

I don't believe Obama is a Muslim, a communist or those other accusations about his birth place, school secrets etc. I do think he is in way over his head. I don't think he or his advisers have a clue what to do to allow the jobs needed to be created. The government CANNOT create good long lasting jobs. However, an environment where the private sector has the incentive to add employees may surprise them how many jobs would become available. The state should assure any employer adding people they would provide effective training of people from the job area for jobs with starting pay of 2X minimum wage or more.

Some in both parties say jobs, jobs, jobs to the camera but sit on their thumb and talk about what personal income to tax or not tax. I would like to see deductions for the wealthy reduced enough to provide the same revenue as a tax increase which removes the incentive for the wealthy to shift investments to avoid taxes. Municipal bonds are exempt from local, state and federal taxes. Municipal bond funds have seen a huge influx of money which appears to be the wealthy anticipating a tax increase.

Getting people off the dole and paying taxes on good incomes would do more than anything to reduce the deficit and possibly eliminate it if the right spending cuts and entitlement reforms were also in place.

The fairest tax would be to tax money as it is spent then there is no need to worry about where it came from. Fair tax proposals SB13 and HR25 include a probate which assures those with lower incomes pay little to no taxes while benefiting from lower prices on goods and services. The wealthy and those with significant above average incomes would scream if the fair tax proposal gains traction.

November 19, 2012 at 1:12 a.m.
hambone said...

TOO QUTE, thank you for cutting and pasteing Lincon Davis's speach about the Marriage Amendment. One of the best pieces of sarcasum ever spoken.

But you did't see it that way did you?

November 19, 2012 at 9:37 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

bulbous said "The only people who have an absolutist idea of abortions are on the right-wing."

That's a curious thing to say coming from a leftist that made abortion a cornerstone of their campaign...interesting indeed. World going to hell, economic collapse looms, and you guys wanted to talk about women's reproductive rights. You need to rethink your statement, Crayon-boy.

November 19, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.
miraweb said...

I know those ol' memories are fading but I seem to recall that abortion and women's reproductive rights were no part of the campaign until a couple of GOP candidates ran their mouths faster than their campaigns could spin it.

It isn't that the GOP has to better its message to women, latinos, blacks, the elderly, and most vertibrates.

They have to quit really ticking them off.

November 19, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.
jesse said...

Hey Jack! BUlB'S momma made a BAD mistake back in the day!

All most as bad as Nooga's momma made!!

Nor really, BUT you gotta think about this kinda stuff!!

WHAT IF NOOGA'S MOM decided to flush his azz ?

THEN we wouldn't have to deal w/all his B/S!

November 19, 2012 at 11:07 a.m.
miraweb said...

Take a minute and picture in your head a "normal person."

Got it?

Now take a look at that image - is the person white, black? Male, female? Old, young? Gay, straight? Disabled or hale?

If you want to know where your prejudices lay (and we all have at least one) take a look at what you think is "normal."

Women are a majority in this country. The concerns that women have are not "extras" to the national debate.

They are part of the national debate.

November 19, 2012 at 11:07 a.m.
jesse said...

Mira,! There is NO SUCH THING as a NORMAL person!!

The normal folks are the one's that get put in the rubber rooms!

That HAD to come stright outta the twilight zone!(NORMAL)no such thing!

November 19, 2012 at 11:10 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: If you're suggesting the right played up the women's reproductive rights issue, you're more of an ideologue than I thought. The "issue" was front and center of every Dem list of talking points. Good grief, woman.

btw, Mira, what image do you conjure up?

November 19, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
miraweb said...

I have two dogs that get in a scrap from time to time.

The young one likes to start a fight.

The old one likes to finish it.

The GOP launched the attacks on womens' reproductive health this year.

The election finished it.

November 19, 2012 at 11:19 a.m.
miraweb said...

The image I conjure is probably no worse than yours. And probably no better.

We all have work to do.

November 19, 2012 at 11:26 a.m.
mtngrl said...

Jack, you apparently have no clue what the word "absolutist" even means

November 19, 2012 at 11:46 a.m.
mtngrl said...

The Anti-Women Voting Record of The U.S. House of Representatives 112th Congress

http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/House%20Anti-Women%20Votes%20Report%209.5.12_0.pdf

Now that Christmas season is starting, the Right wingers are sure to start bitchin about the "War on Christmas". How many anti-Christmas bills have ever been introduced in Congress?

November 19, 2012 at 11:51 a.m.
hambone said...

What has happened to joneses? He hasn't been around in a few days. Do you think his make-believe employees went on strike and he filed for make-believe bankruptcy?

November 19, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
jesse said...

Hey HAM ! They prob. BANNED his azz!

or HE DECIDED TO LIVE FULL TIME IN his delusions!

November 19, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.

Jack_Dennis, you complain about one group responding to another's, while ignoring who acted initially?

How caught up in the right-wing self-delusion are you that you think the rest of us don't know full well how much the Republican party has turned being "pro-life" into a shibboleth?

You're like Mitt Romney complaining about Obama living in a reality of his own while lost in his own version of events that has not the slightest semblance to reality.

mtngrl, Jack apparently lacks a clue about a lot of things. But the only people I know that outlawed Christmas were the Puritans under Oliver Cromwell.

Int he US, that tradition continued under the early Pilgrims.

November 19, 2012 at 2:03 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: It's true women are now the majority. It's also true that groups hate to give up that minority status. Something comforting in that, I guess.

November 19, 2012 at 2:25 p.m.
jesse said...

Well the election is over and DeJarlais is a done deal for 2 years! How about a "Beau Gestes"(sic?) type toon w/the besieged Benghazi troops surrounded by hostiles and the U.S. Calvary haulin azz over the hill gittin the hell outta dodge!!

Be a change and prob.get a serious gang war goin on here!

November 19, 2012 at 4:03 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

If I wouldn't trust my wife, daughter, or sister's medical care to Dr. "Strangeglove" DesJarlais, why would I trust him as my Congressman?

That will be the question his opposition should ask the voting public next time.

It always goes to personal integrity — DesJarlais has none. Much like Ward Crutchfield and the local and state democrats, the local, state and national republican party will wear him like an albatross until he's gone.

November 19, 2012 at 4:17 p.m.
fairmon said...

The post here criticizing the republicans are right. The post here criticizing the democrats are right. Neither of them is worth a tinkers damn. Obama can BS and say not on my watch, not while I am president all he wants to but he forgets he can't do squat unless congress approves it or some agency congress has abdicated their responsibility to does something he is all talk as would be any president. George Bush was an idiot thinking he could get along with Pelosi who, in my opinion, was possibly the worst ever in that position. I don't think much more of boo hoo Boehner. It is sad most post have to be negative about "the other party" since there is nothing to post about a specific good thing either has done. Obama care isn't done yet so that is not anything to brag about and may be one of those omg I didn't know that was in there.

November 19, 2012 at 4:41 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Wal_mart. Those dirty rascals. How dare they enslave so many people? What we need is a gubmint investigation.

November 19, 2012 at 4:43 p.m.
fairmon said...

Congress should abort Desjarlais but they won't. Congress is so compromised they can no longer police themselves or be held to a "higher standard". They look to the lowest common denominator as the precedent as OK for all of them. They make sanctions sound like punishment but nothing significant happens to the sanctioned.

November 19, 2012 at 4:48 p.m.
miraweb said...

Twinkies Get a Reprieve

Only one problem with doing labor negotiations while in bankruptcy:

The judge may just laugh at you.

Looks like the bakers called the new owners' bluff. The judge has ordered both sides to mediation.

It seems the judge was less than impressed that management was also requesting big bonuses at the same time they were slashing bakers' salaries.

The judge also thought there was a bit of a rush to liquidation with only a one-week strike and very little talking going on.

November 19, 2012 at 6:43 p.m.
miraweb said...

Walmart thinks that the "Our Walmart" group is a serious threat. They have an entire senior level division whose only job is to make sure Walmart never gets a union. They also have a fistful of policies on threats from "Our Walmart" labor actions.

Walmart takes it seriously.

November 19, 2012 at 6:44 p.m.
ricardo said...

hambone said..."What has happened to joneses? He hasn't been around in a few days. Do you think his make-believe employees went on strike and he filed for make-believe bankruptcy?" November 19, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.

The make-believe judge told him to negotiate with his make-believe employees, so they can continue to bake those make-believe Twinkies.

November 19, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.
miraweb said...

Bravo, ricardo! :-)

November 19, 2012 at 6:47 p.m.
ricardo said...

tu_quoque said..."You mean like a multi-millionaire Eco End Timer scam artist that lives in a house that has a carbon foot print 20 times that of a normal house."

Do you mean Romney hasn't changed his light bulbs over to compact fluorescents yet? Shame on him!

November 19, 2012 at 6:48 p.m.
ricardo said...

Jack_Dennis said..."Wal_mart. Those dirty rascals. How dare they enslave so many people? What we need is a gubmint investigation."

Nah, a good ole-fashioned boycott can do wonders.

November 19, 2012 at 6:52 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Jack_Dennis says: “That's a curious thing to say coming from a leftist that made abortion a cornerstone of their campaign...interesting indeed. World going to hell, economic collapse looms, and you guys wanted to talk about women's reproductive rights.”

I believe the record shows that it has been the Republican Party that has exploited and continues to exploit reproductive issues and the basic rights of women in this country, Jack_Dennis. For starters, there are those outrageous statements about rape made by Republican politicians like Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock and Paul Ryan. There are the GOP’s threats about Roe VS Wade and the ongoing attacks by the GOP against organizations like Planned Parenthood, which provides critical health services to a lot of families.

And then, of course, there is the GOP’s attack on the contraception mandate of the Affordable Care Act. The Republican Party has tried and continues to try to undermine the mandate by declaring it to be a “war on religion,” which is obviously not the case because the Affordable Care Act clearly exempts houses of worship from the mandate.

Instead moving forward to deal with America’s healthcare crisis, the GOP has opted to take a destructive path claiming that employers should be allowed to tailor health care benefit packages as idiosyncratically as they choose on religious grounds – with special emphasis on idiosyncratic because some religions do not believe in blood transfusions, some religions do not believe in sterilization, some religions do not believe in mental health care, some religions do not believe in contraception, some religions do not believe in palliative care for the terminally ill, some religions do not believe in abortions for any reason, and some religions do not believe in any kind of medical assistance other than anointing the sick with oil.

The bottom line is that the GOP has been playing a very mean-spirited and obstructive game when it comes to the issue of healthcare, and the American people deserve better than the destructive games being played by the GOP. A responsible political party would be concerned about the fact that millions of Americans do not have access to affordable healthcare services and the fact that nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes - in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care.

November 19, 2012 at 7:13 p.m.
fairmon said...

I already boycott Walmart, I can't stand the place, essentially every item is imported, service or assistance is scarce, the check out line is slooooow. I would like to see their employees be paid more although their merchandise would be priced higher, there is a reaction for every action. Giving each loyal Walmart shopper $10,000 would help China's economy and increase our out of balance trade balance. People criticize a company for building/producing in another country while most of their purchases are imported.

November 19, 2012 at 7:19 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova I can't believe you said....People could care less about the moral beliefs of a dirt shoveler. People doing work that requires use of a shovel are some of the best hardest working people on earth. We all need and depend on them doing that work. You sound like Romney with that condescending statement. Why did you screw up a good logical post with that statement?

November 19, 2012 at 7:37 p.m.
ricardo said...

Tell us about your "Made in USA" computer (the one you're posting on), harp.

November 19, 2012 at 7:38 p.m.
fairmon said...

mountainlaurel said...

IN a lof of words republicans are trying to mess with the PPAHCA.

ML pointed out...Some religions do not believe in blood transfusions, some religions do not believe in sterilization, some religions do not believe in mental health care, some religions do not believe in contraception, some religions do not believe in palliative care for the terminally ill, some religions do not believe in abortions for any reason, and some religions do not believe in any kind of medical assistance other than anointing the sick with oil.

I know the republicans are bad people, probably not Americans the truth as you know it be known. But, are you suggesting the government should require these people to go against their beliefs? If you are suggesting that you are worse than any republican and may not get much support from many democrats.

You know, maybe the voucher system with enough value to purchase a good standard health care coverage may not be a bad idea after all. Many employers, other than public employees who have no restraints and have no concept of the profit process, will move to something akin to vouchers. Instead of retaining their self insured status or negotiated group rates they will depost a set amount in a fund from which an employee can withdraw up to the full amount to pay premiums and, if any left, other legitimate health care cost. Any amount not used rolls to the following year. Depositing the funds will be the end of the employers involvement in an employees health care coverage. The employee will shop on the open market for the type and amount of coverage desired.

Be sure you have a program and enjoy the play as the most poorly written act in the recent history of congress comes into view over the next two years. The good stuff started first you know. No prior condition, kids until 26 etc. The bill was passed with many regs not written, changes in red written in the margins and unread by the majority of those voting for and against it. Have you read it, at least scanned all 2600 or 2900 pages?

November 19, 2012 at 8:05 p.m.
miraweb said...

One name to watch in the Twinkie negotiations is Silver Point Capital. They are the hedge fund / vulture capitalists that are trying to push Hostess off the cliff.

If you have heard the name before, it is because they were one of the firms involved in the dismantling and sale of Delphi auto parts to China.

They made about $900 million in the same set of deals that Mitt Romney made a tidy profit on while TARP money was going into Delphi and GM.

Good to see the Robber Barons are back.

November 19, 2012 at 8:13 p.m.
miraweb said...

The most likely outcome is that Hostess's key brands will be bought by other competitors. Entemanns and Flower Foods are already indicating interest.

Somebody will need those 5600 bakers, and they are likely to get more than the $16 an hour that is on the table now. Supporting a family on $32,000 a year is no easy road.

The current owners, apparently, voted themselves 80% raises then stopped paying into the pension fund - six months before declaring bankruptcy.

I don't think the bakers thought they had all that much to lose, really.

November 19, 2012 at 8:20 p.m.
miraweb said...

harp asks - Are you suggesting the government should require these people to go against their beliefs?

That was, essentially, the deal that the Catholic church got from the government on birth control. Birth control is being paid for by the insurers, not the church. Ministerial offices and churches are entirely exempt from the requirement to provide birth control. Catholic social agencies and other business concerns are not.

The church did not find that satisfactory.

I think we have found the last vestige of feudalism. Companies seem to think they own their employees and are responsible for their moral training and upbringing in a good old 14th Century way.

Your employee's benefits are your employee's property - just as their wages are. They do not belong to the employer. It ain't your money, honey.

This is not a feudal manor where the Lord of all he sees must set the religious code for his serfs and slaves to follow. It is a business arrangement where reasonable people will always have different views and perspectives on what is correct, moral, and necessary.

Most countries have already separated health care from employment - and this may be one of the strongest arguments in its favor.

November 19, 2012 at 8:30 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

laurel: Many do not consider birth control pills "healthcare"

November 19, 2012 at 9:14 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Democratic National Committee Chair Debbie Wasserman-Schultz said the Republican Party “got whiter and more male” while the Democratic caucus is “majority minority and female.”

Yeah, Deb. That's a couple of nasty things to be. goodgawdamighty

November 19, 2012 at 9:17 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Harp3339 said: “Are you suggesting the government should require these people to go against their beliefs? If you are suggesting that you are worse than any republican and may not get much support from many democrats. . .You know, maybe the voucher system with enough value to purchase a good standard health care coverage may not be a bad idea after all.”

Since an employer has the personal option of abstaining from any of those medical services I mentioned when it comes to his/her own personal medical treatment, I don’t get your point, Harp3339. It seems to me that the only people whose rights would be suppressed would be the employees who may not share their employer’s faith or healthcare views.

The bottom-line is the Affordable Healthcare Act simply says that the employer is required to pay for a health care plan that covers routine health related services that are typically required for the health of the employees. The employee may or may not need those services, and what ever medical services an employee might need is confidential and privilege information between the physician and the patient. As such, an employer’s indirect contribution to a healthcare plan is no different from an indirect contribution to the voucher system that you referenced.

Again, it seems to me the only people whose religious and medical rights would be suppressed here would be the employees. In some ways, it’s like these scenarios where parents neglect the medical needs of their children because they don’t believe in medicine for religious reasons. The bottom-line is parents don’t have the constitutional right to ignore the medical needs of their children for alleged religious reasons and employers should not have the right to tailor health care packages according to their own personal idiosyncratic religious beliefs.

November 19, 2012 at 9:33 p.m.

harp3339, as you well know, nobody is being forced to undergo a blood transfusion, take birth control, or anything else. Well, perhaps some children are given such medical care, but that's an existing rule that's been around for decades, not related to this rule.

But here? All that is happening is they are being told they can't force their religious-based beliefs on anybody else.

Why don't you realize that is what the Churches want? Do you think we're blind to their desire for control?

Me, I'm going to choose to leave it up to an individual, in consultation with their doctor and family. You seem to be endorsing some other individual making that decision for me. Why do you want to impose that on me? Do you hate my freedom so much that you would sacrifice it to another?

And no, these groups would not be satisfied with the ideas you put forward, they've already stated their opposition, and in some places, made them manifest. Ireland, for example.

Sorry, but they can't live and let live, they do feel obligated to impose on us. That's why their arguments about their freedom are a complete farce.

It's unfortunate you can't recognize that, but feel you need to defend them as if they had a genuine and legitimate grievance.

Also, why would you expect the regulations to be whole and complete? That'd be like thinking that Constitution was whole and complete. A very bad idea. But you would rather stoke up fears based on speculation than realize that flexibility is a good thing.

But you see, health care in the US was already in a pretty poor state, so you know what? Doing nothing was a fool's game.

November 19, 2012 at 9:34 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Jack_Dennis said: “laurel: Many do not consider birth control pills "healthcare"

Like who, Jack? I believe most medical professionals consider contraceptives as a necessary medical service:

“Contraceptives, sterilization and reproductive education should be covered by health insurance plans with no cost to patients under the health care reform law, a new report recommends.

The birth control methods, services and education should be available "so that women can better avoid unwanted pregnancies and space their pregnancies to promote optimal birth outcomes," according to a report from the Institute of Medicine, an independent, nonprofit organization that gives advice to decision makers and the public. . .

Contraceptives can help families plan pregnancies, the report states. A national survey found that an estimated 49% of all pregnancies in the United States were unintended in 2001. . .

Birth control can also help women space time between births. Short periods between pregnancies have been associated with increased risk of higher mortality for children under age 5, low birth weight, preterm births, stillbirths, miscarriages, and maternal death.

The direct medical cost of unintended pregnancy in the United States was estimated to be nearly $5 billion in 2002. The cost savings due to contraceptive use in that same year was estimated to be $19.3 billion, according to a study cited in the IOM's report.

Health care professional associations such as the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Academy of Family Physicians and the American Public Health Association already recommend the use of family planning services as part of women's preventive care.

Dr. James Martin, Jr, president of The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said the organization "really believes unimpeded access to affordable contraceptives for all women is foundational."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/07/19/birth.control.iom/index.html

November 19, 2012 at 10:03 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

thanks, mountainlaurel. JD's post made me too angry to post something intelligent in response. If I had magic I'd turn him into a woman and send him back in time a century or two.

November 20, 2012 at 7:32 a.m.
nowfedup said...

Just when you think SE TN cannot make bigger fools of selves as bible belt gun packing hill billy, they send this guy back to office. Now aren't we proud when someone asks, "who is your DC rep?" Amusing the sliding scale of the TN hypocrites,how some in desperation drag out worn out , "well look at what so and so did", ah yes with such logic we can justify anyone, anytime anyplace and not hear the laughter at the TN hill billy fools logic.

November 20, 2012 at 2:19 p.m.
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