published Sunday, September 23rd, 2012

Kicking the Can

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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MasterBlaster said...

Sorry Clay, but you missed it on this one. Where is the Republican "Goalie" blocking all the shots?

September 23, 2012 at 12:39 a.m.
alprova said...

Well since this one will generate a free-for-all, permit me to introduce the first subject.

It seems that Arizona won an appeal to be allowed to question Hispanics detained for other reasons, to determine whether or not they are in the United States legally.

Of course, Sheriff Arpaio was the first to make arrests of some illegal immigrants, among them, protesters of the appeal ruling who had gathered in front of the ICE agency building in Phoenix.

When he turned them over to be deported, they were all released by Federal authorities, and I quote..."because none of them were criminals."

I'm sorry, but I found that to be funny beyond words. You just know that Jan Brewer and Joe Arpaio have got to be fuming and both about to pop veins because their effort to ethnically cleanse their state of a race of people is still not going to work the way they hoped it ever would.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/22/hundreds-rally-outside-arpaio-jail-organizer-says/?test=latestnews

September 23, 2012 at 4:24 a.m.
joneses said...

You did miss it on this one Clay. The man should be Hussein Obama and the 6 trillion dollars of debt he decided to lay on the taxpayer, the 716 billion dollars Hussein Obama cut from medicare, the massive increase in food stamp recipients under Hussein Obama's failed 4 years occupying the White House, Hussein Obama's unfunded massive socialization of what was once the greatest health care system on earth and other failed spending policies by this failure of a president. The Republicans are stopping this fool of a president from spending more and making the can bigger. Why did the democrats not present and pass a budget when they had complete control the first two years of Hussein failed occupation of the White House? Clay, you are a pussy.

September 23, 2012 at 4:31 a.m.
cactus said...

Our institutions are failing us: Politicians are more concerned about getting re-elected than solving problems. Public school teachers are more concerned about their job security than educating our children. The war on drugs is devastating our poor neighborhoods by arresting street pushers and sending them to prison where they become expert criminals. The stock market is run by gangs wearing white shirts and ties. Our institutions of higher learning have increased costs to the point that only the wealthy can afford to send their kids. The military/industrial complex wants our country to police the world while they get rich and our young men and women are dying. We could afford national healthcare if we stopped being the world's cops. Globalization is lowering our standard of living so we can compete with third world countries. Have a nice day.

September 23, 2012 at 6:31 a.m.
EaTn said...

"Kicking the can down the road" is an old country slang from an earlier time when the roads were not paved and when folks actually walked down the roads. Avoiding the issues is not new to politicians. It's just that the issues have become more frequent and more expensive. Bush added five trillion special interest spending and wealthy tax cuts to the debt on Iraq and other useless programs that helped lead the country into a near economic disaster. Obama has added six trillion to the debt to try to correct the Bush economic disaster. Now the voters have to decide whether to go back to the Bush era, or keep Obama at the helm.

September 23, 2012 at 6:56 a.m.
degage said...

WOW, Clay you got it right , the dems are and have been kicking the can down the road , right to our children and their children and any future generations. The democrat senate hasn't voted for a budget in almost 4 yrs, Harry won't bring it to a vote, he of course is an Obama hack. Harry is afraid to bring the house budget to a vote because he is afraid some of the dems would put their best interest ahead of the party and vote for it.

September 23, 2012 at 6:57 a.m.
degage said...

EaTn, Bush 4trillion in 8 yrs, Obama 6 trillion in 3.5 yrs.There are those of us that aren't stupid enough to believe he hasn't spent much of that for his special interest, He had to pay back his donors. Another one of his solar companys he backed has gone under and the taxpayer is screwed again.

September 23, 2012 at 7:05 a.m.
Reardon said...

Good cartoon, Clay.

I particularly like the ones that indict us all.

Like Lord George Carlin says, politicians don't just appear out of a wormhole from another universe.

They come from us, and they are elected by us, and they represent who we are.

And the sum results of who we are are exactly what "results" we're seeing out of Washington -- making the problem somebody else's to deal with.

And we're all to blame -- Republicans and Democrats (except us Libertarians) -- because, if you're honest, you know this crisis has been coming for at least a half-century (and I'd argue it truly began post Civil War once Federalism was expunged by Lincoln).

September 23, 2012 at 7:06 a.m.
fairmon said...

Reardon.....It has been a while. FDR, LBJ, 1-3-2007 and GWB plus Obama and his doubling the debt in less than four years but keep in mind a lot of that is with a republican congress.

September 23, 2012 at 8:37 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova....

I read your post to say if no crime is committed by someone in the U.S. illegally they should not be returned to their home land and the criteria for being in the U.S. is don't be a criminal. That sounds pretty liberal even for you.

September 23, 2012 at 8:45 a.m.
mymy said...

43 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country and National Security here and abroad.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Another blame everything on somebody else day when it has been building for decades and both parties are responsible!

Obama and co. has put everything in a faster downward spiral!!!

It will take decades to repair the damage Obama (Liar n Chief) and the liberals have done to America.

September 23, 2012 at 8:54 a.m.
MTJohn said...

mymy said..."It will take decades to repair the damage Obama (Liar n Chief) and the liberals have done to America."

You correctly noted that that much of the damage was done before President Obama took the oath of office.

What did Obama do to put everything on a faster downward spiral. Please be specific. Repetition of baseless right-wing hyperbole is not sufficient.

September 23, 2012 at 9:06 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Reardon said..."And we're all to blame -- Republicans and Democrats (except us Libertarians) -- because, if you're honest, you know this crisis has been coming for at least a half-century (and I'd argue it truly began post Civil War once Federalism was expunged by Lincoln)."

Agreed, Reardon, sort of. I think the re-set should go all the way back to the founders and their articulation of principles that did not square with reality. And, in keeping with the spirit of your post, you can't blame Lincoln for the failure of federalism. We all share the blame because we are not capable of keeping the prerequisite promises that are essential for federalism to succeed.

And, Libertarians do not get a pass. Freedom only works when paired with responsibility and the Libertarians have been conspicuously silent on the responsibility half of the libertarian solution.

September 23, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

The can may not be kicked very far. QE3 which has no identified end point or amount and the eventual resulting inflation will return the debt to less than 20% of GDP, it will move more people into higher tax brackets plus other indexed government income sources will extract more revenue. Within the next decade or so you will see gas at $8-10 per gallon, the same for a gallon of milk, $5-6 for a loaf of bread. All commodities will be similarly affected. Most transactions will be electronic instead of cash and eventually tracked and taxed as they occur.

September 23, 2012 at 9:36 a.m.
fairmon said...

Kicking the can down the road is like walking on the beach. It is so pleasant and feels so good until you realize how far you have walked and that you have to turn around and walk back. The further you go the more painful and difficult the return trip.

September 23, 2012 at 9:44 a.m.
ricardo said...

Sadly, I don't think that our elected officials in Congress or the president have a plan or the will to fix these important issues. The only thing they care about is getting re-elected. I also don't think that the American people have the stomach for the kind of sacrifice it takes to fix these important issues.

Mr. Bennett hit the nail on the head with this cartoon. The guy kicking the can is non-partisan. Both political parties are responsible. Libertarians are responsible. Until we stop the partisan bickering and start focusing on fixing the problems, the pile of cans will just get bigger.

September 23, 2012 at 9:54 a.m.
MTJohn said...

ricardo said..."Sadly, I don't think that our elected officials in Congress or the president have a plan or the will to fix these important issues. The only thing they care about is getting re-elected. I also don't think that the American people have the stomach for the kind of sacrifice it takes to fix these important issues."

Agreed, ricardo, escept that your anatomy is a little off - we do not have the heart and we lack the courage to make the sacrifice. Which, by the way, is the reason we elect people to high office who can't fix our difficult problems. We won't support those who try (exceptions noted for a very few, e.g. Bernie Sanders and Olympia Snowe)

Rather than insisting on real and responsible solutions, we will be content with our own version of Krystallnacht.

September 23, 2012 at 10:11 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO: "Ethnically cleanse"? Spoken like someone that never lived in the SW. So it's OK to allow the citizens of the SW to be ravaged so as to assuage your leftist guilt? You're myopic, ALPO. And sometimes downright silly.

September 23, 2012 at 10:19 a.m.
fairmon said...

MTJ...assume you meant kristallnacht, I don't relate the U.S. to that. Q...What is our version of that atrocity.

September 23, 2012 at 10:27 a.m.
ricardo said...

harp, this is just more partisan bickering and comparing Obama to Hitler. Empty John has no solutions so he has to change the subject.

September 23, 2012 at 10:30 a.m.
fairmon said...

Darn alprova.....Are you suggesting that anyone sneaking into America from another country should not be arrested and deported until or unless they are caught and convicted of committing a crime.....That is more than liberal. Terrorist cells, the drug cartels and probably miraweb agree with you.

September 23, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.

Obama deserves all the criticism he gets. My gosh, what a fool. Even with all the evidence that the attack in Libya was planned, he and his stooges still insist it had to do with some stupid movie nobody saw. Obama's piling on of the debt is the ultimate in irresponsibility and kicking the can down the road. Blithering idiot. I read that one of Obama's backers is helping them to acquire a 35 million estate in Hawaii. That's great! He goes off into the sunset after piling on trillions in debt.

September 23, 2012 at 10:45 a.m.
nucanuck said...

While we are searching for causes for the slow motion collapse we find ourselves in, we should include the powerhouse we became emerging from WWII. During that period the US so dominated the world that we thought that we could do and afford anything and everything. We toppled foreign governments, we spread our military all over the world...we truly came to believe that we were exceptional and entitled.

And at least for a few decades, American dominion seemed to work.

Then in 1971 we took a big step that allowed us to expand the money supply with relative impugnity...we moved to a fiat currency backed only by faith and a deal we cut with the Saudis to create the petro-dollar. That deal is now beginning to unravel. With that unraveling it will become apparent that the Emperor(US) has no clothes.

The question Clay aptly puts before us is both WHAT and WHEN will we be forced to deal with a monumental problem. Most on this board would seem to agree that this is not a normal periodic recession. That should tell us that something of this magnitude won't be fixed by any one faction or idea.

We have to decide what the new America will look like. This will be like coming out of bankruptcy with many of our taken-for-granted ammenities stripped away and no one to give us a hand.

We have a resouce rich country and we can come back to a healthy economy, but that will take many years and will require adopting a shared vision. That may be the hardest part of all.

September 23, 2012 at 11:11 a.m.
Reardon said...

MT: "We all share the blame because we are not capable of keeping the prerequisite promises that are essential for federalism to succeed."

Because we are not capable means we need MORE Statism?

We've only been creeping slower and slower towards Serfdom since post-Civil War.

A soft advocacy of Command and Control Economy and Politics?

I suppose the question is, are we capable and fail... or was the whole mess to begin with designed to make it incapable for Federalism to succeed?

I argue the later.

September 23, 2012 at 11:11 a.m.
MTJohn said...

harp3339 said..."MTJ...assume you meant kristallnacht, I don't relate the U.S. to that. Q...What is our version of that atrocity."

I did mean Kristallnact - thanks for catching my spelling error.

I see a few too many similarities between the Weimar replubic and 2012 United States - principle among them 1) a failing economy; 2) an unwillingness to accept personal responsibility; 3) a willingness to irrationally assign fault to others; and, 4) a willingness to embrace falsehood packaged in rhetoric that feels good.

We have at least two camps in this country that are poised for insurrection. One is armed with picket signs, the other with military hardware. Assume current trends continue and protest evolving into violent insurrection is a plausible scenario - with much of that violence focused the irrationally defined source of all of our problems - blacks, hispanics, Muslims, people who look like Muslims and liberals, in general. Then, in response, the next plausible scenario is a strengthened central government trending toward a police state.

Please understand that I am describing a plausible scenario, not attempting to predict the future. But, if you look at current reality, the notion that people in this country will come together, think beyond their selfish interests and commit to develop solutions that work for all of us is definitely not a plausible scenario in our future.

September 23, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn: And the left is completely high on the Guyana-like ether.

September 23, 2012 at 11:27 a.m.
fairmon said...

MTJohns....I agree with your comment that the notion that people in this country will come together, think beyond their selfish interests and commit to develop solutions that work for all of us is definitely not a plausible.

September 23, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
ricardo said...

Kristallnact was initiated by the government against those it viewed as a threat (and a source of revenue). The current American government does not view its citizens as a threat because they are not organized and have no clear agenda for change. We are almost evenly split ideologically. The only threat will come when one group (or both) have had enough and begin to rise up in civil protest. We saw a glimpse of this with tea party and Occupy protests, but the messages became muddled with partisan attacks and no clear unified message, and these movements fizzled out. I am not advocating a violent uprising. We are still a democracy, but we need to come together peacefully for the common good. The political parties exist for their own existence and to maintain the status quo. It's time for something different.

September 23, 2012 at 11:35 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Every time the republicans put forth a plan to stop "kicking the can" down the road, the democrats start their usual scare tactics of "they want to push grandma off the cliff" or "the republicans want dirty air and water".

We have a spending problem in this country, not a tax problem. Until we reign in out of control spending, the can will be kicked again and again. Sooner or later you run out of money to take from people to pay for other people. It's as simple as that.

When a teenager goes crazy with daddy's credit card, does he raise the spending limit or take scissors and cut it up?

Did Bush go crazy with the credit card? Absolutely. But it pales in comparison to what Obama has done and is doing. He was supposed to fix the problems associated with the "Bush spending". But instead he doubled down on it. To say Obama had no hand in our current economic condition, as well as our foreign policy failures, is a complete lie.

September 23, 2012 at 11:44 a.m.
Salsa said...

I bet we won't see a Clay cartoon about Paul Smith and his misogyny.

September 23, 2012 at 11:45 a.m.
patriot1 said...

As Mark Steyn points out in "After America" there are two ways to stop if you're in a car heading toward a collapsed bridge. You can skid to a halt and stop short of the cliff edge or come to rest at the bottom of the ravine. I fear we are now destined to the later.

September 23, 2012 at noon
miraweb said...

When I was young, terrorist bombings from Northern Ireland seemed like a problem with no solution. It was really stunning when they actually came to an agreement and stopped the violence.

I am beginning to be amazed, yet again. Go, Libya!

The interim Libyan leader, Mohammed Magarief, has vowed to disband all illegal militias in the aftermath of the US ambassador's death this month.

All camps and militias not under the authority of the government would be dissolved and no unauthorised checkpoints allowed, he said.

Militias that emerged during the fight to topple Col Muammar Gaddafi last year remain a powerful force.

Residents of Benghazi evicted militants in response to the envoy's death.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19691510

September 23, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Is that where the deficit's hiding? Obama whips out massive wad of cash to pay for sausages at deli

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207301/Is-deficits-hiding-Obama-whips-massive-wad-cash-pay-sausages-deli.html#ixzz27JFKMZuZ Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I wonder how many people with food stamps he had to wait behind before paying with his wad of bills.

September 23, 2012 at 12:05 p.m.
Reardon said...

As long as people can drive through (not walk in) to pick up a Big Mac, pay under $5 or $6 a gallon for gas, then sit back and watch TV at night, nothing is going to shake Joe Public awake.

If any of you ever sold anything in your life professionally for a long period of time like I have, you understand this one truism of selling and of every day life:

Emotion creates motion.

Until the day when there's enough emotion from going broke paying for basic necessities and cable TV costs too much, we won't see any massive action to solve anything from either side, despite all the bitching and whining we hear.

And our public officials know this; thus the can continues to be kicked.

September 23, 2012 at 12:13 p.m.
ricardo said...

Headline news: Obama buys sausages with cash!

Does that mean he's not a Muslim since he's eating pork sausages?

September 23, 2012 at 12:15 p.m.
ricardo said...

When the level of pain becomes unbearable, the people will rise up and say that enough is enough. Apparently, what we're seeing now is just a minor nuisance, not enough to become involved in the solution.

September 23, 2012 at 12:19 p.m.
fairmon said...

miraweb said....

I am beginning to be amazed, yet again. Go, Libya!

Are you also amazed that Russia and Iran are arming the new government of Libya? Are you just as amazed with the Muslim brotherhood, Shira law and their view of how women are to be treated? Have you wondered why the U.S. has not yet embraced the new regime, in fact still appear to be waiting and watching? I would like to see the torture and death of the ambassadors and others vindicated with the extinction of all radical terrorist that think they have a duty to be involved in jihad. Bring about an early meeting with their Allah and Muhammad and allow peace loving Muslims to quit living in fear.

September 23, 2012 at 12:28 p.m.
alprova said...

"Hussein Obama's unfunded massive socialization of what was once the greatest health care system on earth and other failed spending policies by this failure of a president."

I've had $480,000 worth of experience, saving the life of my wife over the four years that it took to restore her to back to health, and $100,000 worth of personal experience with my own medical issues, probably spawned by years of dealing with "this once greatest health care system on earth" as you put it.

We've never been number one, and you are totally clueless as to what many people go through and what they have to sacrifice in order to be served by this nation's health care system.

The only category related to health care that the United States excels in, is the amount of money spent per person, for health care. We are way down the list in nearly every other category used to evaluate the results of our current system of health care.

"The Republicans are stopping this fool of a president from spending more and making the can bigger."

Not that any President writes a single check issued by the Gov't, but are you so sure that the Republicans have stopped their spending ways? I suggest that you take a little time to review the spending measures passed in the House over the past year and a half, before expressing pure ignorance. They have not stopped a thing, except measures that would have provided the means to put millions of people back to work.

"Why did the democrats not present and pass a budget when they had complete control the first two years of Hussein failed occupation of the White House?"

We discussed this in fine detail a couple of weeks ago. The simple fact is that there is no need to pass a budget in Congress. They are often ignored anyway. Spending is done by Congress through individual and incremental spending measures, which most often, unfortunately, exceed budget proposals.

No budget need be passed for this country to function as it has for 236 years and counting.

"Clay, you are a pussy."

Sir, with what little respect you are ever due, that would far better describe someone very much like yourself -- a man who sits behind a keyboard monitor all day long, typing words like that to others.

Go take a gander in the mirror and see if you truly like what you see.

September 23, 2012 at 12:29 p.m.
miraweb said...

This was Libya a year and a half ago:

A Benghazi cleric, Abellah al-Warfali, said he had a list of 16 people who had been killed, most with bullet wounds to the head and chest. "I saw with my own eyes a tank crushing two people in a car," he said. "They didn't do any harm to anyone."

A Libyan journalist said of the African mercenaries: "The soldiers are vicious killers. People are so terrified of them that they've been doing everything possible to get away.

"Women and children were seen jumping off Giuliana Bridge in Benghazi to escape. Many of them were killed by the impact of hitting the water, while others were drowned."

Fatih, 26, another Benghazi resident, said: "A lot of the thugs he's employing are not Arabic speakers. They're armed to the teeth and only use live ammunition. They don't ask questions – they just shoot. Buildings and cars have been set on fire here, and the situation is getting worse. The dead and injured are everywhere.

"The mercenaries shoot from helicopters and from the top of roofs. They don't care who they kill."

I was amazed when Northern Ireland turned around. I was shocked when Kosovo turned around. And, yes, I am thrilled at where Libya has moved to in a very short time.

Go Libya!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8335934/Libya-protests-140-massacred-as-Gaddafi-sends-in-snipers-to-crush-dissent.html

September 23, 2012 at 12:35 p.m.

Don't worry, the solution is coming. See, the leaders know the secret of the Mayans, and are aware the world will end.

Thus why bother fixing anything?

harp3339, Obama's doubling the debt? That's currently around 15 trillion dollars. On the day he took office, I find that it was 10 trillion dollars.

Given that the deficit was hardly zero when Obama took office, you can hardly attribute all of it to his spending. Especially since his spending proposals wouldn't even be passed for some months after that, so we could probably pick another date.

Please stop making false claims, you know they don't work. And I'm not even arguing with the falseness of the idea that it's the President who controls spending, but really Congress. Which has had many Republican members who have refused to do anything to correct the debt or deficit, and whose figurehead, Paul Ryan, his own plan also increases the debt for many years before reducing it.

I think the only plan that I saw that immediately begins to pay of the debt was Pat Toomey's.

September 23, 2012 at 12:38 p.m.
degage said...

Poor Al, you are so into the koolaid.

September 23, 2012 at 12:42 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "I read your post to say if no crime is committed by someone in the U.S. illegally they should not be returned to their home land and the criteria for being in the U.S. is don't be a criminal. That sounds pretty liberal even for you."

Actually, I never expressed an opinion on the issue, other than to have found the frustration that Jan Brewer and Joe Arpaio are experiencing, to be funny.

I did not state any personal opinion that if someone found to be in this country has lived here without committing any crime, that they should not be deported. That apparently is the current immigration policy of this nation at the Federal level, for it was the Federal authorities who released the first illegal detainees submitted to them by the State of Arizona, on that basis.

Those two Arizona bureaucrats are indeed most militant in their resolve to ethnically cleanse the State of Arizona of an undetermined amount of Hispanics who live there.

What I find funny about the situation, is that every time they think they have a green light to move forward with their plans to achieve that goal, their efforts are blocked.

September 23, 2012 at 12:46 p.m.
alprova said...

MtJohn wrote: "What did Obama do to put everything on a faster downward spiral. Please be specific. Repetition of baseless right-wing hyperbole is not sufficient."

You're pumping an empty well by asking her to elaborate. I'm firmly convinced that the woman is incapable of conversing on any productive level, but she can count.

September 23, 2012 at 12:50 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO: "ethnically cleansed". There you go again.

September 23, 2012 at 12:53 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Chris Wallace Asks Obama Adviser 'President Has Time for Whoopi Goldberg But Not World Leaders?'

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/09/23/chris-wallace-asks-obama-adviser-president-has-time-whoopi-goldberg-n#ixzz27JS25FJ5

September 23, 2012 at 12:54 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Democrats Offer Lunch With Gore and Pelosi As Prize for Donations

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/09/22/democrats-offer-lunch-gore-and-pelosi-prize-donations#ixzz27JT2eTxk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....A PRIZE..HAHAHAHAHA!!!

September 23, 2012 at 12:58 p.m.
degage said...

Happy, I guess it was a democrat house and senate that ok'd the solyndra and other solar projects that went belly up. Obamas pet projects have cost the taxpayers an awful lot of money they won't get back. But that is OK with you and your ilk you believe money grows on trees. Or the fed can just print more, Wake up and stop drinking Obamas poison.

September 23, 2012 at 12:59 p.m.
miraweb said...

RomneyGaffe(TM) of the day:

"One would suggest that government knows better than free people," he said. "It's a pathway to become like Europe, and Europe doesn't work there. It's never going to work here. It's even possible we could be on a pathway to become California -- I don't want that either."

  • Mitt Romney speaking at a fundraiser - in San Diego

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/politics&id=8821206

"Mitt: makin' new friends everywhere he goes!"

September 23, 2012 at 1 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack_Dennis wrote: "ALPO: "Ethnically cleanse"? Spoken like someone that never lived in the SW."

Sorry, but you're wrong again. I lived in Tucson, Arizona in the 70's, not that it has a thing to do with the issue.

"So it's OK to allow the citizens of the SW to be ravaged so as to assuage your leftist guilt?"

Oh please...leave the serious discussion to the adults in the room. You're clearly not qualified to wade in on subjects of debate.

"You're myopic, ALPO. And sometimes downright silly."

Wow!! I'm impressed. Myopic is a pretty neat word for a man who routinely expresses little intelligence.

You, like Harp, seem to be under some impression that I offered an opinion in my post. I didn't, other than to find the failed efforts to attempt to deport a few illegal immigrants, now that they have been released by a judge to do so, to be funny.

And it is indeed funny to watch from the sidelines, people make complete asses of themselves, when they set themselves up as heroes and saviors of their home turf, only to be thwarted in their efforts to target a race of people...yes people, in an effort to cleanse or rid them from their presence.

My vision is not perfect, but I do have several pairs of glasses to assist me with the need to see things quite clearly.

Perhaps you need to don a pair for yourself and to go back and reread my post.

September 23, 2012 at 1:08 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: Mitt spoke the truth. Anyway, the Peoples Republic of California is a lost cause.

September 23, 2012 at 1:09 p.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "Darn alprova.....Are you suggesting that anyone sneaking into America from another country should not be arrested and deported until or unless they are caught and convicted of committing a crime.....That is more than liberal."

Okay, now you asked me my opinion. That deserves and answer.

The illegal immigration issue is very complicated. I have nothing but empathy for anyone who is desperate enough to pack a few belongings and to make their way up to what in reality consists of thousands of miles away from their homeland, to find the means to support themselves and their loved ones.

At the same time, I realize that this nation cannot afford to support all of the population south of our borders.

In my humble opinion, it takes guts, determination, and it demonstrates a great deal of bravery for someone to leave a place of familiarity, without a cent in their pockets, on a quest to arrive at a place where the future is completely unknown to them. I could never imagine undertaking such a feat myself, but then I have never been in any situation similar to what those people have endured in their struggles to survive.

That aside, I am absolutely on board with any effort to legitimize those who are already in this country. The deportation of those already here is a prohibitively expensive proposition, and one that this country can ill afford.

There is little question that this nation needs more taxpayers. Give them a Social Security number and start legitimately taxing what they earn and allow them to live hear without fear.

But the argument is all academic, for it seems the reality to the illegal immigration problem has been taking care of itself for most of the last two years anyway, due to the lack of ready-made jobs open to them.

Jeb Bush put it quite nicely, when he stated that the number of illegal immigrants flowing into this nation for the last two years has been "net zero."

September 23, 2012 at 1:33 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."MTJohn: And the left is completely high on the Guyana-like ether."

Jack - My first suggestion to you would be that, if you want to engage this conversation rationally, first read "The Art of the Long View" - it describes the framework for doing scenario planning. Then, note that, to do scenario planning well, you have to limit the identification of trends to those which have a solid basis in fact. You have to let go of all of the meaningless rhetoric. I know, that might be a challenge for you. And, as a footnote, my explanation of an American equivalent to Kristallnacht was a comment about the current current reality in our country, a reality to which we all contribute, irrespective of our political leanings.

September 23, 2012 at 1:52 p.m.
MTJohn said...

ricardo said..."Kristallnact was initiated by the government against those it viewed as a threat (and a source of revenue). The current American government does not view its citizens as a threat because they are not organized and have no clear agenda for change."

I did not suggest that our government would initiate it, although I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some elected officials and, especially, the lobbyists and think tanks that support those elected officials might contribute to it. And, I agree that our government does not view our citizens as threats. However, there are significant segments in our society that view other segments of society as threats. And, there are significant segments of society that view government as a threat. Within those groups, we already have witnessed events in which people used violence to challenge the perceived threat.

ricardo said..."I am not advocating a violent uprising. We are still a democracy, but we need to come together peacefully for the common good."

I'm not advocating a violent uprising, either. And, I agree that we need to come together for the common good. I'm just suggesting that a violent uprising is the more plausible future.

September 23, 2012 at 2 p.m.
stanleyyelnats said...

Vote for Willard RMoney and his specifics to S C R E W you... !

I pay more federal income taxes so Willard can pay less.

stanleyYelnatsdotCom

September 23, 2012 at 2:05 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Reardon said..."I suppose the question is, are we capable and fail... or was the whole mess to begin with designed to make it incapable for Federalism to succeed?"

I should have said that we are capable, but too selfish, for federalism to succeed.

September 23, 2012 at 2:07 p.m.
miraweb said...

For those really looking for a third candidate:

Oh, Canada!

September 23, 2012 at 2:08 p.m.
alprova said...

Salsa wrote: "I bet we won't see a Clay cartoon about Paul Smith and his misogyny."

Who dat?

September 23, 2012 at 2:18 p.m.
alprova said...

I like a glass of Kool-aid every now and then, but that's another subject altogether.

You're free at any time to refute, disprove, or to improve your own credibility at any time, by specifically addressing anything I type.

Until that day ever comes, your fascination with what I satisfy my thirst with, is meaningless.

September 23, 2012 at 2:32 p.m.
tderng said...

alprove said...who dat?

Hamilton county democratic party chairman.

September 23, 2012 at 2:41 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Happy, I guess it was a democrat house and senate that ok'd the solyndra and other solar projects that went belly up."

Don't look, but your ignorance is showing again.

The Energy Department has been making grants, loans, and guaranteeing loans for alternative energy invesments since Ronald Reagan was President.

96% of those companies invested in over all these years, are still up and running. Most have made good on any loans given to them.

One or two companies fail and the wings start flapping, and of course it's all the fault of the current President.

"Obamas pet projects have cost the taxpayers an awful lot of money they won't get back."

You lay that accusation as if you can prove that they were instituted by the President. You can't and you never will. Solyndra was started while GWB was in office, who also had nothing to do with it.

"But that is OK with you and your ilk you believe money grows on trees. Or the fed can just print more, Wake up and stop drinking Obamas poison."

Grow a brain, put it to good use, and educate yourself a little.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-09-09/news/33718400_1_george-kaiser-solyndra-solar-panels

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-solyndra-fantasy/

September 23, 2012 at 2:51 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng, thank you for responding.

I had no idea that he was the local source of that joke, but it did find its way onto my desk about a week ago, and I found it to be quite hilarious.

Going back to your orginal comment, which sparked my question, I'm perplexed as to why you feel that the joke can be viewed as reflective of anyone's persona.

I don't know the man, and as a Georgia resident, I have never had any reason to pay any attention to who he is, but that's neither here nor there.

Clearly, anyone can read the joke, they can understand that it is indeed a joke, and unless one is eternally stupid, they would be able to easily see the humor intended.

Paul Smith's choice to include it in official documents was in poor taste, but outside of that, I see nothing wrong with the sharing of that joke with a soul. I brought it home for the wife to read, and she too found it quite funny.

If anything, a little outrage over that joke, simply illustrates that there are indeed people on this planet who simply have no sense of humor.

September 23, 2012 at 3:17 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohns: Are you related to ALPO? Use lots of prose to say nada.

September 23, 2012 at 3:21 p.m.
degage said...

Al, did you read happys comment, He said congress controls spending and I countered so it must have been the dems that OK it since the money was given to solyndra after Obama and his crew took over. I am well aware the energy dept was making the grants and loans, and am also aware they are Obamas picks. I was just being catty to happy.

September 23, 2012 at 3:26 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack - if you and the folks whom you mimic (e.g. Rush et al.) had something intelligent to say, you would not have to limit yourself to insults.

September 23, 2012 at 3:45 p.m.
alprova said...

"Al, did you read happys comment, He said congress controls spending and I countered so it must have been the dems that OK it since the money was given to solyndra after Obama and his crew took over."

Happy is 100% correct. Not one dime by the Gov't can be spent, that Congress does not have a hand in first.

The loan to Solyndra was guaranteed after Obama came into office, but the approval by Congress to fund the Energy Department to be allowed to invest in more companies like Solyndra, was passed in 2004. Both Houses were dominated by the Republicans back then, as I'm sure you know.

"I am well aware the energy dept was making the grants and loans, and am also aware they are Obamas picks."

That's where your brain takes the wrong off-ramp every time. President Obama had no hand in the loan guarantee to Solyndra, and neither did GWB.

Is it so hard for some of you people to understand that there are people in Washington who operate and who make decisions all the time, without consulting with the President of the United States?

People who head up most of the agencies in Washington do as they darn well please, and they do so with full authority to make those independent decisions.

The important fact to concentrate on is simple: 96% of all alternative energy companies that have been supported by our nation's Department of Energy, are still in business.

Blaming President Obama for the failure of Solyndra might be popular among the Obama bashers, but there isn't a shred of truth or fact to support it.

You can't even blame Congress for what happened. Blame China for the dumping of cheaper solar panels into America at the time that Solyndra was planting its roots.

Blame our unfair system of trade, which disadvantages American businesses routinely in their quest to compete with countries that still pay their workers peanuts compared to ours.

September 23, 2012 at 3:52 p.m.
alprova said...

Cactus wrote: "Public school teachers are more concerned about their job security than educating our children."

While I am quite sure that teachers love their jobs and enjoy the process of educating children, are you suggesting that it is wrong for them to have concerns for their own futures as well?

Everyone, no matter their choice of profession, values job security. People sleep better at night and perform the duties of their jobs far better, when their financial futures are not in jeapardy all the time.

What happened in Chicago is not reflective of teachers across the entire nation. It's not as if there have been any widespread instances of teachers making unusual or outrageous demands and threatening or going on strike.

I'm outraged over the strike by those in Chicago. Their demands were over-the-top. That incident represents the very worst that union representation leads to, and why there is a movement to limit the power of unions.

September 23, 2012 at 4:06 p.m.
degage said...

Al, your dates are wrong, Solyndra was launched in 2007, Dem house and senate . Bush adminstration rejected the loan gaurantee. It wasn't picked up again until 2010.

September 23, 2012 at 4:14 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, your dates are wrong, Solyndra was launched in 2007, Dem house and senate ."

The funding renewal approved for the Energy Department to invest in future alternative energy projects was approved by Congress in 2004.

Solyndra was one of 34 companies ultimately invested in since Obama has become President. They were being considered at a time when 143 other applicants were eventually rejected.

32 of the companies approved for funding since Obama has been President are still in business.

"Bush adminstration rejected the loan gaurantee. It wasn't picked up again until 2010."

The Department of Energy at no time ever rejected the Solyndra application while Bush was in office. The DOE in fact selected Solyndra for approval over hundreds of companies that applied for grants, loans, or loan guarantees while Bush was still President.

The process of qualifying Solyndra for the loan guarantee was still in the process at the time the torch was passed to Obama.

Keep trying to misrepresent the facts, and I'll keep shooting them down.

September 23, 2012 at 4:39 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

That aside, I am absolutely on board with any effort to legitimize those who are already in this country. The deportation of those already here is a prohibitively expensive proposition, and one that this country can ill afford.

There is little question that this nation needs more taxpayers. Give them a Social Security number and start legitimately taxing what they earn and allow them to live hear without fear.

alprova....are you saying that if they are working make it legitimate with a green card? I am OK with that one time and any employer found to be employing an illegal from any country after that would be severely penalized, fined and perhaps no longer be allowed to own and operate the business. The only way any non-citizen could be employed would be to register with immigration authorities and be assigned to a tracking officer. Employers would then request referrals from them based on the job being offered. Say good bye to those with no job until a job becomes available for them. Is this inhumane and insensitive or does it put country before politics?

We are losing the war on terrorist, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on illegal immigration, who knows the ending of the wars in the middle east, can anyone name one war our leaders and congress has referred to as a war as they have half a$$ funded and staffed with political appointments and hires?

September 23, 2012 at 4:52 p.m.
fairmon said...

1/3/2007...this date mean anything to anyone?

September 23, 2012 at 4:54 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohns: I haven't listened to Rush in years. I get insulted, I insult back. Simple. Who cares? No harm, no foul.

September 23, 2012 at 4:55 p.m.
degage said...

Wrong again Al, solyndra was founded in 2004. full application for a loan came in 2008. Review started by the DOE at that point. Dems were in control. Took over all the commitees then.

September 23, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."MTJohns: I haven't listened to Rush in years. I get insulted, I insult back. Simple. Who cares? No harm, no foul."

...except that I haven't insulted you Jack.

September 23, 2012 at 5:26 p.m.
tderng said...

alprova said...Going back to your orginal comment, which sparked my question, I'm perplexed as to why you feel that the joke can be viewed as reflective of anyone's persona.

ummm.I didn't have any comment about the story.Merely posted the information.

Having said that I do know Paul Smith. He was a teacher and wrestling/football coach at the jr. high school I went to (way back when). He kinda creeped me out.I didn't much like him,but that was just my personal opinion.

September 23, 2012 at 5:32 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Wrong again Al, solyndra was founded in 2004."

You're not reading. The funding that allowed the Energy Department to invest in alternative companies and that ultimately was paid out because it guaranteed Solyndra's loan, was approved by Congress in 2004.

It does not matter when Solyndra went into business, which by the way was in 2005.

"full application for a loan came in 2008."

That doesn't matter either. Nothing passed by the 110th session of Congress was remotely related to the funds ultimately paid out on behalf of Solyndra loan guarantee.

"Review started by the DOE at that point. Dems were in control. Took over all the commitees then."

I hate to point out the obvious, but you are totally clueless to how funding requests are handled by Congress.

Congress at no time, or in any session, approved or disapproved the decision that the DOE made to guarantee the loan awarded to Solyndra.

Congress simply decided how much cash to deposit into the DOE accounts based on DOE funding requests.

In 2004, Congress approved funding for the specific DOE green energy investing program that the funds dispensed on behalf of Solyndra came from, when it failed.

The decision to guarantee their loan in 2010 was at the sole discretion of the DOE, and that is all there is to it.

September 23, 2012 at 5:51 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

MTJohn: Sorry if I offended you.

September 23, 2012 at 6:08 p.m.
rick1 said...

degage, here is more information regarding involement of The Obama Administration and Solyndra. Al will never admit The Obama Administration screwed us on this loan. See it is only the truth if Al says it is the truth.

In a batch of White House emails released in a report on Solyndra by the House Energy and Commerce Committee on Thursday, there's this gem: White House aide Aditya Kumar wrote to Jacob Levine of the Office of Energy and Climate Change on Aug. 19, 2009: "Feels like Rahm wants this too (barring any concerns) — POTUS (President Of The United States) Involvement (in pushing Solyndra) was Rahm's idea."

Vice President Joe Biden was scheduled to announce the closure of the Solyndra deal on Sept. 4, 2009, and several emails show pressure from the White House to approve the loan. President Obama also visited Solyndra to tout solar energy as a job-creating energy source of the future of which Solyndra was a key part.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/080312-621032-potus-solyndra-involvement-was-emanuel-idea.htm

September 23, 2012 at 6:10 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng wrote: "ummm.I didn't have any comment about the story.Merely posted the information."

You didn't? Would you expect that your comment, "Paul Smith and his misogyny" to be innoucous and impersonal? It wasn't the title of the TFP story you provided a link to, so why did you feel it relevant to include that particular word, unless you agreed that it properly described the man?

"Having said that I do know Paul Smith. He was a teacher and wrestling/football coach at the jr. high school I went to (way back when). He kinda creeped me out.I didn't much like him,but that was just my personal opinion."

Okay. I don't know the man at all, so I'll take your word on that.

I'm not trying to split any hairs, but that joke is the last thing on earth that could or should be used to lay any claim that any person who shares it harbors any hatred for the female gender, wouldn't you agree?

September 23, 2012 at 6:15 p.m.
tderng said...

al...while I agree with you about the joke(rather humorous),I DID NOT POST ANY COMMENT ABOUT IT BEING MYSOGYNISTIC! That was posted by salsa @11:45am.please don't put words in my mouth,I have trouble enough with my own.

September 23, 2012 at 6:29 p.m.
ricardo said...

Putting the joke on an official document was inappropriate. It demonstrates an insensitivity to the feelings of women who attended the board meeting.

September 23, 2012 at 6:41 p.m.
tderng said...

ricardo...agreed,it was stupid to put it on a meeting document.Having said that I would be willing to bet that these same women who were "offended" would have yukked it up had a joke about men been circulated.

September 23, 2012 at 6:50 p.m.
alprova said...

tderng wrote: "al...while I agree with you about the joke(rather humorous),I DID NOT POST ANY COMMENT ABOUT IT BEING MYSOGYNISTIC! That was posted by salsa @11:45am.please don't put words in my mouth,I have trouble enough with my own."

Of course you are right. My apologies and I retract my comments lobbed in your direction by mistake.

I'm not as sharp as I once was and I do have trouble from time to time in keeping up with the various identities used in here. I mistakenly assumed that you were the person who orginally posted the comment, since you responded to my question posted to that person.

I truly am sorry for the mix-up.

September 23, 2012 at 6:57 p.m.
tderng said...

No problem al. Thank you for the apology.:)

September 23, 2012 at 7:09 p.m.
alprova said...

rick1 wrote: "degage, here is more information regarding involement of The Obama Administration and Solyndra. Al will never admit The Obama Administration screwed us on this loan. See it is only the truth if Al says it is the truth."

Facts will always be facts. Feel free at any time to refute whatever I submit as such.

A third party claim found in an email by a White House aid is the best that you or anyone else can offer as proof of anything? And now the mastermind behind the Solyndra approval is allegedly now Rahm Emanuel? That's rich.

I have never denied that the President, Vice-President, or anyone else touted Solyndra as a green energy company that had promise. It is entirely plausable that since the loan guarantee was imminent for approval, that inquires were made to schedule a nice little photo opportunity to announce it.

So what? That's politics in that age of modern technology. Al Gore had a river flooded so that could paddle a canoe on camera at a time the area was enduring a severe drought. GWB stood on the deck of a warship to proclaim "Mission accomplished" before all heck broke out. George Bush the first stood in front of a camera and proclaimed "Read my lips. No new taxes!!" before going back on his word.

The President touted the DOE investment in an energy company making solar panels that went belly-up. Not every decision made by any President is perfect, nor has so much as one President throughout history made decisions that have not come back to haunt them.

What do I care what you believe? The issue has slipped to the back of most people's minds, but the Obama bashers try to revive it now and then in their pathetic attempt to tear the man down.

Come November, the President will show the world that he is coated in Teflon.

September 23, 2012 at 7:16 p.m.
degage said...

Rick1 you are right Al is always right even when he is wrong.

September 23, 2012 at 7:18 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Rick1 you are right Al is always right even when he is wrong."

And we know this to be true, due to your repeated offerings of proof that have discredited me, right?

I put out fresh water every morning for my outside pets. They never seem to appreciate that simple gesture immediately, as they never come running up to take a drink. By the time I get home each evening, the bowl is half-empty, so I know that they have enjoyed that water.

You, my pet, are afforded pails of water each time I post, for I do my level best to stick to the facts. I guess you refuse to drink because in your mind, it is better for you to remain thirsty for the truth.

You're like my cows. You just love taking long licks on blocks of salt at various times of the day.

September 23, 2012 at 7:34 p.m.
ricardo said...

alprova, your blind loyalty is admirable, but come on dude, he's just a man. We're a long way from this speech, and he's shown that he can't walk on water.

That said, I'm still a supporter, and I'll be voting for him again in November, although not as enthusiastically as you.

September 23, 2012 at 7:37 p.m.
alprova said...

Oh, I'm not as enthusiastic as I was in 2008 either, but I find myself an ardent supporter nonetheless because I am appalled at the effort by so many people to demean the man through rampant acts of dishonesty.

He is, as you say, just a man. But he is a man whom I am firmly convinced cares about the people that most politicians turn up their noses at.

Do you want to know my wildest dream? Of all the people on this planet that I would just love to meet for an hour long conversation, he would be my number one pick.

I don't drink alcohol as a general rule, but I'll just bet that sitting at a table over a beer or two would be a blast. I'd also bet that there would never be a lull in the conversation either.

Do I feel that the man has been a great President so far? Of course not. But I am willing and wanting to see what he does with a second term, for I feel that the man can then buckle down and do some great things, once the pressure is off to seek the approval of the American people.

Every President since term limits were instituted, has made their most notable accomplishments during their second terms. I'm betting that he will do the same.

September 23, 2012 at 8:20 p.m.
degage said...

Al, you are so funny. But then blowhards usually are. I notice you are a little pissed off. You are like easy that way. I'm sure you will say you aren't angry but the rest of us know better. You made my day. I love getting you liberals panties in a wad.

September 23, 2012 at 8:21 p.m.
ricardo said...

One thing that I have found in the 10 years I have been living in NW Georgia is that my Democratic vote does not matter in a presidential election. The other thing that I have discovered is that the Republican votes in Georgia or Tennessee also do not matter. These states are solidly red. That leaves a lot of unhappy and frustrated voters, although Democrats can gloat that their guy won for the next 4 years.

September 23, 2012 at 8:29 p.m.
mymy said...

Well, looks like another day of the dim 0 crats kicking their can of BS around. LOL funny!!!

September 23, 2012 at 9:06 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Well, looks like another day of mymy's Presidential candidate losing ground in battleground states! LOL romney!!!

September 23, 2012 at 9:16 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO enjoys talking about himself.

September 23, 2012 at 9:16 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_ enjoys talking about alprova. He must find alprova more interesting than himself.

September 23, 2012 at 9:26 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Al, you are so funny. But then blowhards usually are."

Aw...gee...Now don't go getting all mad, just because I defeated your attempt to shove Solyndra in the "In" slot of the tray on the President's desk.

"I notice you are a little pissed off. You are like easy that way."

Isn't it funny how some people have the uncanny ability to see emotion in typewritten responses?

Sir, this is not my first rodeo. I've had an online presense since the mid-nineties. I spent all my rage many, many years ago. It would take a great deal more than you can dish out to anger me in the slightest.

"I'm sure you will say you aren't angry but the rest of us know better."

I think it would be better if you refrained from thinking that you represent the opinions of anyone but yourself. Given the level of your responses, it's clear that you have your hands full maintaining your own credibility.

"You made my day. I love getting you liberals panties in a wad."

That certainly explains why you spend so much time attempting to spread misinformation, but it doesn't do much to explain your sudden need to confess to having a fixation on other people's underwear.

September 23, 2012 at 9:48 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: How are things at the politburo?

September 23, 2012 at 10:29 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

There goes alpo again. "Thinking" he won an argument when in fact he didn't. The problem with narcissists like alpo is they shield themselves from real truth and substitute it with their own version. Obama has made a career from this. Liberals live their entire lives doing it. Good little liberal soldiers. Blindly swinging the rubber truth ax in the name of social justice.

September 23, 2012 at 10:31 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "There goes alpo again. "Thinking" he won an argument when in fact he didn't."

There goes the forum's most obvious racist, thinking that he even knows how to argue a single point.

"The problem with narcissists like alpo is they shield themselves from real truth and substitute it with their own version."

The problem with schizophrenics like Toes is they bast themselves like turkeys in an oven, with ignorance, misinformation and lies, repeating them so often that they believe them to be true.

"Obama has made a career from this."

Not according to the fact-checkers, but as we now know, Mitt Romney's campaign staff are not inclined to guide their candidate to relate any facts.

"Liberals live their entire lives doing it. Good little liberal soldiers. Blindly swinging the rubber truth ax in the name of social justice."

This, coming from a man who has amassed the second worst record of credibility in this forum. You may not know much, but you do know a great deal about the art of typing ignorance, misinformation, and outright lies.

Never forget, that you too, are always welcome to refute or disprove anything I present as fact. Achieving that goal will involve you doing just a little more than offering "nanny nanny poo poo, I know more than you do."

September 23, 2012 at 11:44 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said regarding Obama......

Every President since term limits were instituted, has made their most notable accomplishments during their second terms. I'm betting that he will do the same.

No doubt about it, anticipation was justified when he whispered to the Russian aid, I will have more flexibility after the election. my worry is what will those notable events look like , what will they cost, what impact will they have on the future of the country and future generations?

We agree the second term will result in something notable but we may have different perceptions of what they might be or at least differ on the value of them. I really don't think France is a good role model for the U.S.

September 23, 2012 at 11:57 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Just fine, Jack_. How's your pogrom planning committee going? You folks gonna start with the Jews again this time, or change it up and start murdering the handicapped first?

September 23, 2012 at 11:58 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Nothing planned, dude_, but you marxists would be an interesting place to start.

September 24, 2012 at 12:08 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "No doubt about it, anticipation was justified when he whispered to the Russian aid, I will have more flexibility after the election."

Actually, he was speaking to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, but that's neither here nor there.

You are aware of what their meeting was about, aren't you?

The subject was the proposed missile defense system that the United States, along with NATO, has proposed to build in Europe. Russia is opposed to it because they think that it will be aimed at them, despite all assurances that the target is Iran.

Obama's open mike comment has indeed sparked controversy, but what did he mean when he said it? He asked the outgoing Russian President to allow him space for now on the issue as "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

I took it to mean that the President's agenda was rather full at the moment and that after the election, he could spend more time and attention to the issue.

"my worry is what will those notable events look like, what will they cost, what impact will they have on the future of the country and future generations?"

I'm sure that you will disagree, but the President never had any intention, I'm sure, in spending going so over-the-top. He has many financial and economic advisors, most of whom have been in Washington for years. He followed their advice and asked for the stimulus, carried the ball on GM and Chrysler, finished the bailing out of our financial institutions, etc.

Was it ideal? No, but it was all necessary to prevent a bad situation from getting much, much worse.

"We agree the second term will result in something notable but we may have different perceptions of what they might be or at least differ on the value of them."

I'm sure that we do indeed differ in our predictions if Obama is reelected, and this is not a campaign commercial, but Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan terrify me, for they have expressed every intention to repeat the same mistakes that put us where we are now.

They have expressed the desire to deregulate the financial sector, they are committed to even more tax cuts for the wealthy, they are both committed to cutting the funding to Medicare, and on a personal note, they have vowed to repeal ObamaCare, and if they were to do it, I am back to being uninsured.

"I really don't think France is a good role model for the U.S."

Don't sell France short. They have the number one rated health care system in the world, and quality of life is everything to those people. There are many reasons to admire that country.

September 24, 2012 at 1:05 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova responds with....

I'm sure that we do indeed differ in our predictions if Obama is reelected, and this is not a campaign commercial, but Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan terrify me, for they have expressed every intention to repeat the same mistakes that put us where we are now.

How would you say it differently if it were a campaign commercial? R&R don't scare me and they are not proposing a return to what got us in this mess in the first place. However, I don't see their agenda being enough and I don't agree with their no tax increases commitment. No human is worth what some high paid managers, athletes and others receive and those over paid individuals do not provide the capital that is important to growth. That said closing business tax loop holes and decreasing the business rates make a lot of sense.

September 24, 2012 at 4:38 a.m.
degage said...

Al, your time line is still all wrong. I went to the gov site to get the time line, Nowhere in it is 2004 mentioned. Dec 28 2006 solyndra supplied the pre app to the DOE, not until may6 2008 was the full app sent to them . It didn't go to review until nov 2008 and was not given to them until sept 2009. You just can't get past the blame game, Its all Bush's fault, your god can do no wrong.

September 24, 2012 at 6:52 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

I devoutly pray that ALPO is not a regular caller on talk radio. Can you even imagine?

September 24, 2012 at 7:28 a.m.
degage said...

Al,About your wildest dream to sit at a table and have an hour long conversation and a beer or two with Obama was interesting. It might turn into a nightmare because you are both narcissist.

September 24, 2012 at 7:38 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

ALPO is a current day Cliffie Claven.

September 24, 2012 at 7:45 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Jack_Dennis said..."MTJohn: Sorry if I offended you."

Apology accepted, Jack.

Please understand that there is a critical difference between attacking issues that are in dispute and attacking the person with whom we disagree. The former can be vigorous, yet civil. The latter is not civil. Unfortunately, we have too many examples of people in this country who have amassed small fortunes with their uncivilized behavior and too many people who take pride in their ability to follow the bad examples.

September 24, 2012 at 8:34 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

For all of you lovers of big government, imagine a land with almost no government, that lasted over 100 years, until some big government finally took the opportunity to destroy...

http://mises.org/daily/6145/Anarchy-in-the-Aachen

An impossible story. We MUST HAVE GOVERNMENT, and it must be involved in every aspect of our lives. It does not matter if it does not work. It does not matter that important issues will be kicked down the road until a state of crisis arrives. We gotta have our big government ('cause that is what we are taught in our big government schools).

September 24, 2012 at 8:57 a.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote "Al, your time line is still all wrong. I went to the gov site to get the time line, Nowhere in it is 2004 mentioned. Dec 28 2006 solyndra supplied the pre app to the DOE, not until may6 2008 was the full app sent to them . It didn't go to review until nov 2008 and was not given to them until sept 2009. You just can't get past the blame game, Its all Bush's fault, your god can do no wrong."

That's a-okay degage. You just keep on blamin' those pesky Democrats in Congress for approving the Solyndra loan guarantee.

It's all water under the bridge anyway.

September 24, 2012 at 9:15 a.m.
degage said...

Okey-dokey I will keep blaming the pesky dems so it evens out your Bush bashing. tit for tat.

September 24, 2012 at 9:23 a.m.
alprova said...

BRP wrote: "For all of you lovers of big government, imagine a land with almost no government, that lasted over 100 years, until some big government finally took the opportunity to destroy..."

It's a novle idea, and if this nation had only a maximum population of just 4,600 people during the last 100 years, the size of our Gov't would be just as tiny too.

But, we don't have 4,600 people in this nation. We have about 307 million. You do understand that there is a difference, don't you?

September 24, 2012 at 9:26 a.m.
mymy said...

42 Days to Go!

It is still the economy/jobs/foreign policy/direction of country and National Security here and abroad.

Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock

Top Ten Changes Obama Made in His First Four Years

It will take decades to repair the damage Obama (Liar n Chief) and the liberals have done to America.

Stimulus, Feb. 2009……

Reset, Mar. 2009 & Cairo, June 2009…..

Carbon Regulation, June 2009…..

Justices Sotomayor, Aug. 2009 & Kagan, Aug. 2010…..

Obamacare, Mar. 2010…..

(Anti) Israel, 2009-present….

Security Leaks, May 2011-present…..

Downgrade, Aug. 2011…..

"Dream Act" by Decree, June 2012…..

"Film" Attacks, Sep. 2012…..

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/23/Top-Ten-Changes-Obama-Made-in-His-First-Four-Years

Now sit back and watch the retards defend!!!!

September 24, 2012 at 9:30 a.m.
conservative said...

The loontoonist is disingenuous to say the least, in that as a Liberal he has advocated and voted for and advocates now unconstitutional spending which has and will continue to increase the deficit and the debt.

September 24, 2012 at 9:39 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

alprova said... "But, we don't have 4,600 people in this nation. We have about 307 million. You do understand that there is a difference, don't you?"

alprova, of course I understand the population difference. Why does the population difference have to change anything? We have been taught to believe that government has this "necessary" roll, is this really true? Why couldn't people be free to live with each other in love and harmony without the corrupt influence of big government?

Think about it. Most of the misery in the world seems to come from those that are trying to organize people into bigger and bigger groups of the governed.

Oh, I forgot, a population like that would be very difficult to organize for their role in a global economy and global governance. Nearly impossible, that’ll never work.

September 24, 2012 at 9:41 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "How would you say it differently if it were a campaign commercial?"

I guess I wouldn't, but facts are facts, and Gramm-Leach-Blilely is the root cause of what led to the stock market crashes and the housing market bubble to burst, and R&R have vowed to take us right back there for a second round.

"R&R don't scare me and they are not proposing a return to what got us in this mess in the first place."

If they keep their promise to deregulate our entire financial sector, as Mitt has stated several times that he is committed to doing, it will be a free for all, and I will be one of many who will be yanking every single cent I have invested and entrusted elsewhere.

I'm not about to go through that again.

"However, I don't see their agenda being enough and I don't agree with their no tax increases commitment."

They are proposing more tax cuts, especially for the top tier. Have you even read Paul Ryan's latest budget proposal? I did, with an open mind, and it absolutely will not work. It's based on projections that must come to pass for it to even have a chance to work.

"No human is worth what some high paid managers, athletes and others receive and those over paid individuals do not provide the capital that is important to growth."

Completely different subject, and one that I do agree with you on.

"That said closing business tax loop holes and decreasing the business rates make a lot of sense."

We always seem to disgree on this one, but I am not opposed to giving American businesses who come back into this country to resume where they left off the incentive to do so. Exempt them from unions, zero taxes for X amount of years, no tax on repatriated funds, etc., but only if they hire X amount of Americans per X amount of dollars that are brought back.

That said, it is not the corporate tax rates that drove businesses to higher ground. It was the labor cost. Taxes and fees imposed on American/Chinese enterprises are much higher, but they save immensely on labor, or at least they did. The gap is closing and it won't be long before an exodus begins out of China to somewhere else, unless our lawmakers grow a brain and attempt to woo them to come back home.

September 24, 2012 at 9:51 a.m.
mymy said...

Republican poll analysis: Romney winning with middle-class families

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81584.html#ixzz27OY7crxH

September 24, 2012 at 9:52 a.m.
dude_abides said...

"...You folks gonna start with the Jews again this time, or change it up and start murdering the handicapped first?"

Jack_Dennis said... "...you marxists would be an interesting place to start."

As near as I can determine, that's the first death threat I've ever seen on this forum of ideas and opinions. Thankfully, I saw your original avatar and have determined that you couldn't get out of a bathtub without a block and tackle and a Bobcat, so my nerves are not completely shot. The problem, Jackleg_, is where does it now end? Will death threats now be commonplace on this forum? You've single-handedly devolved our free exchange of ideas into a Taliban death chant. See how irresponsible you are? I think you should apologize to all the people here who have never threatened the lives of others.

September 24, 2012 at 9:59 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Obviously nothing left to do with the cans that the DemoncRATS have opened, emptied, and left behind.

September 24, 2012 at 10:16 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Alpo-the-fool. You tried to lie and distort your way out of the Solyndra fiasco but couldn't do it. Alpo spreading lies, ignorance and misinformation again.

For instance, you spew on about how Obama's spending kept the situation for being "much, much worse". Yet you have absolutely no proof of this. Just because alpo-the-great thinks it worked, then by all means, it worked. The only reason you say that is to defend Obama. To you, everything bad is Bush's fault, and everything not bad is Obama's brilliance at work.

According to Obama, the recession was over in 2009, so all that happens after that is all on Obama.

September 24, 2012 at 10:18 a.m.
dude_abides said...

whatnot is having trouble reading the cans. Can we get an inset closeup from the TFP 'Cartoon Zoom-In Department'?

September 24, 2012 at 10:29 a.m.
degage said...

WE all complain about outsorcing, I just read about workers in china rioting about work place abuses and low wages working for a company making parts for the apple Ipods. Then when the new ipod comes out Liberals and concerative alike run out and by one. Apple is projecting a trillion dollar value next year all on the backs of the poor in china. Buy American.

September 24, 2012 at 10:35 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Dude's believin' everything Tooney draws. Those problems were created by DemoncRATs. Sorry Dude.

September 24, 2012 at 10:35 a.m.
dude_abides said...

CORRECTION

whatnot can see the cans! Call off the Zoom Squad! What we need here is English to English translation. Over.

September 24, 2012 at 10:41 a.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: death threats? You're effing crazy.

September 24, 2012 at 10:45 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

CBS Doesn't Air Obama Admitting Mistakes in Campaign Ads

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbs-doesnt-air-obama-admitting-mistakes-campaign-ads_652973.html

Full audio of 1998 ‘redistribution’ speech: Obama saw welfare recipients as ‘majority coalition’

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/24/full-audio-of-1998-redistribution-speech-obama-saw-welfare-recipients-as-majority-coalition/#ixzz27OoejTIx

Obama wants welfare recipients to be a "majority coalition".

September 24, 2012 at 10:57 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama Refers to Israel Concern Over Iran as 'Noise'

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-refers-israel-concern-over-iran-noise_652967.html

This guy has GOT to go.

September 24, 2012 at 11:02 a.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "Alpo-the-fool. You tried to lie and distort your way out of the Solyndra fiasco but couldn't do it. Alpo spreading lies, ignorance and misinformation again."

You saying it and you proving it are two different things. Okay, you've said it. Now get busy proving it. By all means, expose one lie I typed.

"For instance, you spew on about how Obama's spending kept the situation for being "much, much worse". Yet you have absolutely no proof of this."

Of course I don't have proof. An alternatve course was set that likely prevented things from worsening. That is my personal opinion. The course that was taken was based on the advice of every economy expert that he consulted. Go argue with them and see how far you get.

"Just because alpo-the-great thinks it worked, then by all means, it worked."

Sir, compare the numbers to what they were, to what they are now, to discover the fact that this nation is in a far better state than it was back then. It worked alright and it will continue to work, despite all the wing flapping that people like yourself do to convince people otherwise.

"The only reason you say that is to defend Obama. To you, everything bad is Bush's fault, and everything not bad is Obama's brilliance at work."

You've never seen me blame GWB for the economy, and you never will, so who is it exactly that likes to lie?

"According to Obama, the recession was over in 2009, so all that happens after that is all on Obama."

If you had a brain, you would understand the truth in that statement. During a recession, the economy "recedes." You do know what that word means, don't you?

During the year 2009, the recession did end, because the numbers started heading north again, and they have been headed north ever since, albeit slow as can be.

But make no mistake. The recession did end somewhere in the middle of 2009. What month, I don't know and I don't have the time to look it up.

September 24, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

TOES02800 said... "Obama wants welfare recipients to be a "majority coalition"."

Of course he does. He is a student of Alinsky, right?

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

September 24, 2012 at 11:29 a.m.
dude_abides said...

Don't blame me for your words, Jack_, you typed 'em.

September 24, 2012 at 11:30 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

BIN LADEN'S DEAD!

Al-Quaeda's alive.

BIN LADEN'S DEAD!

8.1% unemployment's alive.

BIN LADEN'S DEAD!

$16 trillion deficit is alive.

BIN LADEN'S DEAD!

So is Solyndra.

BIN LADEN'S DEAD!

So is Christopher Stevens.

BIN LADEN'S DEAD!

So is Brian Terry.

FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!

September 24, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.
miraweb said...

BRP muses:

For all of you lovers of big government, imagine a land with almost no government, that lasted over 100 years . . .

"No government" is anarchy and anarchy has a bad name because it has been tried too many times. Funny how in all of human history, the libertarian magic utopia doesn't exist anywhere - at least not for very long.

But we do have Afghanistan, Somalia, Rwanda, Bosnia . . .

I get the feeling that the folks who want to be free from government really want "free" government where the firefighters and cops are on call, the teachers teach, the pot holes are filled and the sewers are repaired. Apparently, the anarchy elves get all that done.

Anarchy has a bad reputation for a reason. It never works out as well as advertised.

September 24, 2012 at 11:50 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama describes murder of U.S. ambassador to Libya and Mid East violence as 'bumps in the road'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207861/Obama-describes-wave-Middle-East-violence-murder-U-S-ambassador-Libya-bumps-road.html#ixzz27P2nRIrH Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Christopher Stevens. Just a bump in the road for Obama. What a pathetic piece of Chicago toilet scum this guy is.

September 24, 2012 at 11:53 a.m.
miraweb said...

Toes - weren't you the guy saying you should be focused on promoting your candidate instead of tearing the other guy down?

Not as much fun, is it.

September 24, 2012 at 11:55 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Obama: ‘I Bear Responsibility for Everything--To Some Degree’

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-i-bear-responsibility-everything-some-degree

Prick!

September 24, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.
miraweb said...

Obama Picking-up Medicare Voters

New polling by Reuters/Ipsos indicates that during the past two weeks - since just after the Democratic National Convention - support for Romney among Americans age 60 and older has crumbled, from a 20-point lead over Democratic President Barack Obama to less than 4 points.

Romney's double-digit advantages among older voters on the issues of healthcare and Medicare - the nation's health insurance program for those over 65 and the disabled - also have evaporated, and Obama has begun to build an advantage in both areas.

Romney's campaign rejected that, but the recent polls suggest that such claims may be resonating with Americans aged 60 and older, who for months had been the only age group to consistently support Romney over Obama.

Analysts say that if Romney cannot reverse the trend among older voters, he won't win on November 6.

"If Romney loses seniors, he loses this election, period," said Jonathan Oberlander, a health policy specialist at the University of North Carolina. "A bad showing nationally (among older voters) does not bode well for Florida and other states with big senior populations."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/24/us-usa-campaign-medicare-idUSBRE88N04Z20120924?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=574655

September 24, 2012 at 12:01 p.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

miraweb said... "Anarchy has a bad reputation for a reason. It never works out as well as advertised."

Well, the example given was not anarchy. Please go back and read it with an open mind. It does not detail out how the government was structured, but it was quite minimal, i.e. one police officer for the entire population of thousands. You have to admit, it sounds like they had a better situation than you can find under the yoke of big government.

There are viable solutions for all of the things that you want to insist are the sole domain of government.

What would you say to a community who appealed to the US government and the State involved for the chance to try this experiment?

http://mises.org/daily/6145/Anarchy-in-the-Aachen

September 24, 2012 at 12:26 p.m.
degage said...

Romney certainly is not losing this senior. The last 4yrs has been rough. Dems decided seniors didn't deserve a cost of living allowance for 2010&2011 then gave themselves one. Gas prices and heating fuel doubled, food skyrocketing, electricity skyrocketing like Obama said it would jan 2008. saving quickly fading away. Only a stupid senior would vote for Obama.

September 24, 2012 at 12:30 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: So, dude, you're admitting to being a marxist?

September 24, 2012 at 12:37 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." - Alexis de Tocqueville

on the mark

September 24, 2012 at 12:41 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_Dennis said... "dude_: So, dude, you're admitting to being a marxist?"

My words say nothing about marxism. Your words convey death threats. You will start with the marxists and then move on to the handicapped and then the Jews. Thanks for finally coming out of the neo Nazi closet.

September 24, 2012 at 12:52 p.m.
miraweb said...

Seniors have been around long enough to have very good BS detectors.

Romney has said he wants a voucher program to shift the risk of higher health care costs directly into seniors' limited budgets.

Seniors have already figured that out.

Romney says he wants to cap Medicaid payments at inflation plus 1%, even though the actual costs are much higher. Two-thirds of nursing home payments come from Medicaid now. Slapping a financial cap on the program means there will be fewer doctors and less access to nursing home care.

Seniors have already figured that out.

Romney showed open contempt for folks who have paid taxes all their life, but now have lower incomes in retirement.

Seniors have already figured that out, too.

Ryan was booed this week at the AARP. No one likes to be treated with contempt. No senior deserves to be treated with contempt.

I would say that seniors are very thoughtful, very smart, and have figured out that Romney knows little about their lives - and doesn't really care about the challenges they face everyday.

September 24, 2012 at 12:56 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: You're one sick mofo

September 24, 2012 at 12:59 p.m.
mymy said...

Miratoon: You spend 2 hrs. looking over Romney's tax returns. Did you take just a short time to read:

For most voters, however, this election is still about pocketbook issues. Fully 66 percent of voters select a pocketbook issue as their top concern. The Romney camp should feel good going into the three presidential debates knowing he has majority support (Romney 53 percent/Obama 44 percent) from these economically focused voters.

In fact, even with all of the misleading partisan attacks on the proposals from Ryan to reform Medicare, a majority of seniors (61 percent) select a pocketbook issue and not Medicare as their top issue of concern and nearly 6 in 10 seniors (58 percent) are voting for the Romney-Ryan ticket.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81584_Page2.html#ixzz27PLvI0hu

September 24, 2012 at 1:11 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

The Redistributionist is headed to a taping of The View. Bet they ask some tough, probing, questions. Bwahahaha

September 24, 2012 at 1:24 p.m.
dude_abides said...

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/jesus-married-questions-surround-new-gospel-of-jesus-wife-findings-by-harvard-professor

Hey, this is interesting. Any opinions here? Jesus married??? Wow, can you imagine the righteous bachelor party? Now that water-into-wine miracle takes on new meaning. If his wife screamed "oh, God" would Jesus get jealous? You know for a while the Mormons believed Jesus was married... before they didn't believe that. Maybe they were just searching for omnipotency or the vaunted omnigasm. What, I wonder, did they call the missionary position before there were missionaries?

September 24, 2012 at 1:28 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_: You're one simple minded racist.

September 24, 2012 at 1:32 p.m.
miraweb said...

mymy -

You have old data there. Amazing the difference two weeks makes.

I agree, Seniors are very aware of "pocketbook issues" and they make the connection that cuts in Medicare mean money from their pockets and serious threats to their health care.

Seniors can tell you, to the dollar, how much more their premiums are costing. Getting the costs of prescriptions under control and dropping that idiotic "donut hole" makes a very big difference in seniors' budgets.

Seniors are the first to experience cuts in food stamps, in heating subsidies, and in housing support. As states have pulled back, all of these programs have already had cuts.

They know what hardship that causes.

They also see these cuts at the same time that the very rich are making no sacrifices at all.

Romney has lost his credibility with seniors. The poll numbers reflect that, more than anything.

Yes, they are pocketbook issues. All of them.

September 24, 2012 at 1:38 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_ I challenge you to find one racist remark I've made.

September 24, 2012 at 1:41 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_, I have never worked for someone I didn't respect, and don't intend to start now. Why don't you busy yourself scouring all of my posts to find a reference to Karl Marx and get back to me? See how useless your rejoinder is?

September 24, 2012 at 1:56 p.m.
Lookingback said...

It is Obummer who keeps kicking the can down the road while spending money like a drunk, pot-smoling sailor.

And losing four people in Libya is just a bump in the road per his comments on 60 Minutes last night? What a failure as President and a puke as a human being.

September 24, 2012 at 1:57 p.m.
degage said...

Mira, seniors left AARP by the thousands when they realized theywere actually not for the seniors, but liberal. They lost me when they went along with the dems on cola for seniors. AS I said before congress, their staffers,and WH staffers got their COLA. I recieved a letter from AARP in answer to my question to them why they went along with the COLA for seniors. It said there wasn't enough inflation for us to get one. So my answer to them was why did congress vote one for themselves. then I canceled my membership.

You obviously aren't on medicare. The rates have gone up on everything in the last year and my doctor is not going to except any new medicare or medicaid patients because it will cost him more to provide the care than the gov will pay. My co pays have doubled this past year.

September 24, 2012 at 1:59 p.m.
miraweb said...

Actually, I've had Medicare for 10 years.

You are making the point, actually - seniors knew immediately when the small increase that the COLA provides was missing from their budgets.

Medicare is always a pocketbook issue - and a voting issue - for seniors.

It takes some real "huevos" to tell the people who fought WWII and rebuilt the entire world in the aftermath that they are "victims" and unwilling to take on responsibilities.

Especially from a guy who sat out Vietnam in Paris.

September 24, 2012 at 2:13 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Luckenbach... I wasn't aware that you conservatives had taken to trashing our Navy as a way of attacking the President. I doubt that the sailors who are out there risking their lives away from their families would appreciate you accusing them of being drunks or 'smoling' pot. I'm sure the majority don't even smole cigarettes.

September 24, 2012 at 2:13 p.m.
miraweb said...

Seniors are willing to make sacrifices - but everybody needs to be in the game, including those at the very top.

September 24, 2012 at 2:16 p.m.
mymy said...

Miraloon: I'm a senior so don't tell me how I think. I fear Obama more for what he is doing to "all" of this country including you even if you don't see it.

The Obama Economic Policies do not/will never support the revenue to support all his promises! Can’t keep borrowing/taxing to pay for all. Economic policies should be to make an environment for business to grow and jobs created=more tax revenue. Saying that, the spending needs to be cut back and there are many ways that can be accomplished. Trying to save SS and Medicare is a priority (not Obama’s though). Means testing is a good way. Higher income people get less benefits, etc.

Obama wants the government to be your Master. Get a clue!

Romney/Ryan 2012

September 24, 2012 at 2:26 p.m.
mymy said...

All those bumps in the road have forced the Liar n Chief to avoid his real work/responsibility/face to face talks with world leaders as the mid-east burns/world economy burning etc. and those pesky hard questions. Loves the love fest type gigs. He has nothing to contribute but double talk anyway.

September 24, 2012 at 2:32 p.m.
degage said...

Mira, Two of us seniors to one (you) against Obama. Seniors have taken a big hit under Obama.

September 24, 2012 at 2:38 p.m.
miraweb said...

Some harsh reviews coming in on the whitepaper Romney put up Friday to fix housing:

The new Romney plan document is all of seven pages long—one of those pages is the cover, and three pages lay out the current situation and bash Obama’s policies.

That leaves a one-page executive summary that recaps the two pages that actually outline the “plan.”

That part of the plan is, shall we say, light on details. So much so that Business Insider’s Joe Weisenthal wrote (in his headline no less) that the paper “has got to be a joke.” . . .

The white paper says: “The Romney-Ryan plan will completely end ‘too-big-to-fail’ by reforming the GSEs. …

Rather than just talk about reform, a Romney-Ryan Administration will protect taxpayers from additional risk in the future by reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and provide a long-term, sustainable solution for the future of housing finance reform in our country.”

Got that? So Romney will reform them and do something new.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-24/romneys-housing-plan-looks-a-lot-like-

September 24, 2012 at 3 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: Sounds like you're dodging the question. Still waiting.

September 24, 2012 at 3:32 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

Mira: You mean like Clinton in England?

September 24, 2012 at 3:37 p.m.
mymy said...

Miraloon: Another Liberal Hack Job, sorry you can’t see through it.

What more do you want at this point. The basics are there and seems clear enough to me. I think before anything put in final form Romney will work with people from both side to get their ideas. Obama pretends to do that, but he doesn’t! You know, elections have consequences====my way or the highway!!! I am the President!!!! Four years of no leadership and that attitude with horrible consequences for this country is enough.

Romney says: If you want to work together with people across the aisle, you lay out your principles and your policy, you work together with them, but you don't hand them a complete document and say, ``Here, take this or leave it.'' Look, leadership is not a take it or leave it thing. We've seen too much of that in Washington.

http://www.mittromney.com/issues/housing

“Since the housing crisis, the government has produced more than 8,000 pages of new rules and regulations. The problem is that they are poorly designed, and have made it harder for people with good credit to get loans. Mitt Romney will put in place smarter regulations to restore a functioning marketplace that holds banks accountable and restart lending to creditworthy borrowers.

Any serious plan for ending the housing crisis must address its root cause. Two government-sponsored companies known as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were at the center of the housing crisis. Mitt Romney will reform these government-sponsored companies to protect taxpayers from additional risk in the future by ensuring taxpayer dollars in the housing market are replaced with private dollars.”

September 24, 2012 at 4:22 p.m.
dude_abides said...

And wait you will, Jack_a$$. Mrs. Jesus will have her own Testament before I will work for you, bunky. lol

September 24, 2012 at 4:30 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_ making accusations he can't back up. typical leftist shizzola. (you're right, wanker, you would never work for me)

September 24, 2012 at 4:40 p.m.
whatsnottaken said...

Dude is so sad. I pity you dude.

September 24, 2012 at 4:46 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Jack_ & whatnot... you have GOT to be the same person. No two people could be so similarly freaking drab and moribund by coincidence! A couple of automatons whose serial numbers differ only in the final digit.

Hey! Rick Perry has blamed his horrible debate performances and general JacksnotDennis malaise on... wait for it... SLEEP APNEA!!! That explains so much! I thought I had heard him snore once or twice mid-sentence. You guys should give him another shot! He couldn't possibly be any worse than Mr. Etch-A-Sketch. Poor Mitt is wired like his wife's charter plane.

September 24, 2012 at 5:22 p.m.
degage said...

Here is something interesting. Obamas charity percents. 2007 5.8% 2006 6.1% 2005 4.7% 2004 1.2% 2003 1.4% 2002 0.4% 2001 0.55

Romney pays 28% and libs have a problem with that. Now they ar esaying he paid to much in taxes. He can't win for losing.

September 24, 2012 at 5:28 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Romney Gave 1,000 Times as Much to Charity in a Year as Biden Gave in a Decade

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/romney-gave-1000-times-much-charity-year-biden-gave-decade_652977.html

Liberals seem to be very generous with other people's money, but they're very tight with their own. Cheapskates.

September 24, 2012 at 5:47 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

MEDIA PUT 18,000 IN NOT-QUITE-FULL 5,000-SEAT ARENA FOR OBAMA IN WISCONSIN

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/09/23/Media-Put-18000-in-5000-Seat-Arena-for-Obama

Only Obama can get 18,000 people crammed into a 5,000 seat arena... and still have plenty of seats to boot! Pathetic little libbies. The thrill of '08 is GONE!! Having to fabricate fictional crowds is a sign of desperation.

If Obama were really doing so well, why would the media have to resort to such distortions? And why would he be in Wisconsin in the first place?


September 24, 2012 at 5:55 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Strange, you'd think Mitt would want to wow us all with the tax returns for the missing years. I'm sure there'd be plenty of charitable giving which would allow for more bragging!

September 24, 2012 at 5:59 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

mymy: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac AND Barney Frank. Or is it Bwaany Fwank?

September 24, 2012 at 6:21 p.m.
mymy said...

Toes: lets's not forget Dodd!!!

Both gone!!

September 24, 2012 at 6:33 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Yeah, it would be hard for Biden to brag about a paltry $3,000 in charity giving in ten years.

September 24, 2012 at 6:44 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Biden on cheerleaders:

"The stuff they do on hardwood, it blows my mind".

What a perv.

September 24, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

The mere fact that Biden is only one heartbeat away from being president should be reason enough not to vote for Obama.

Absolutely terrifying.

September 24, 2012 at 7:19 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Now, according to Axlegrease, Romney has paid too much in taxes.

Never happy these liberals.

September 24, 2012 at 7:55 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Romney certainly is not losing this senior."

There certainly are those who can't see their own nose in front of their faces, so I'm sure that you are committed to Mit Romney for that very reason.

"The last 4yrs has been rough. Dems decided seniors didn't deserve a cost of living allowance for 2010&2011 then gave themselves one."

You're attempting to relate totally false information. Cola raises are tied to the rate of inflation and that has been the case since the 1970's.

Congress DID NOT pass any raise in pay for themselves nor did they receive their automatic raises in both 2010 and 2011. In fact, Congress tried to fix the COLA raises for Social Security.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/cola.asp

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/97971-obama-signs-law-blocking-congress-pay-raise

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/medicare.asp

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/22/chain-email/chain-e-mail-says-congress-raised-own-salaries-whi/

"Gas prices and heating fuel doubled, food skyrocketing, electricity skyrocketing like Obama said it would jan 2008."

Yep...it's all Obama's fault. The President as we all know, sets the prices for gasoline, heating fuel, food, and electricity.

Are you really as obtuse as you come across?

"Only a stupid senior would vote for Obama."

You're certainly entitled to be as ignorant as you please.

September 24, 2012 at 8:54 p.m.
alprova said...

mymy wrote: "I'm a senior so don't tell me how I think."

No need to fret, for clearly you don't think.

"I fear Obama more for what he is doing to "all" of this country including you even if you don't see it."

How many times have you been asked to cite any of the things that you think he is doing to this country? Can you cite anything?

"The Obama Economic Policies do not/will never support the revenue to support all his promises!"

What economic policies are those?

"Can’t keep borrowing/taxing to pay for all."

Have your taxes went up so much as one penny?

"Economic policies should be to make an environment for business to grow and jobs created=more tax revenue."

Clearly, you have no clue. I own a business that has grown immensely over the past year due to the envronment created in part by the President.

"Saying that, the spending needs to be cut back and there are many ways that can be accomplished."

Now you're making sense, but you left out the fact that revenue must flow into the Gov't as well.

"Trying to save SS and Medicare is a priority (not Obama’s though)."

Do you really think so? The savings that come from cutting fraud and waste in Medicare, outlined in ObamaCare, which you can read for yourself, are put right back into Medicare for future benefits. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan want to trim the same amount of $700 billion from medicare and not once single cent be used to provide benefits to anyone. They are trimming that amount to justify more tax cuts for the wealthy.

"Means testing is a good way. Higher income people get less benefits, etc."

While I agree with that on principle, I also see the other side of that coin too. Wealthy people have paid into the system and they deserve those benefits too.

If someone has the desire to change entitlement programs, they need to start by changing it for the 18 year olds on their first job. Changing the rules for people nearing retirement is totally the wrong way to fix the problem.

People have paid into those programs in good faith for decades. If they had any idea that the rug would be yanked out from under them, they might have made other plans with that money.

Means testing is nothing short of theft, and quite frankly, I am shocked to read of a Republican endorsing such an idea.

September 24, 2012 at 9:15 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

^^^^ thanks Cliff

September 24, 2012 at 9:22 p.m.
dude_abides said...

What is the source of the foul stench that has crept in on little cat feet and sits waiting on fishnet haunches and won't move on? Why, It's tu_ uncommon! Or should I call you Mrs. Mary M. Christ?

September 24, 2012 at 9:51 p.m.
degage said...

Yes they talked about a 150 to 250 fix but that went nowhere. They did forefit their raise for 2011,but according to the senator our group talked to they did get 2010 that is probably the reason some congressmen decided to forego 2011 raise and made that happen. Your hill link only mentioned the 2011 raise. I never read snopes because they are usually left. Medicare did go up, and so did co-pays, I should know. Obamas agendas have not helped the seniors. you don't want to admit he stop drilling permits on gov held lands the only knew drilling is on private land and he has no say on that. His solar projects are still in infantcy and will be years before they get any better. He said in 2008 the coal companys will be bankrupt. Can't remember his exact words but I can see he meant it. Go green and our electricity goes up as it already has.

You whipper-snappers don't have a clue how to do without the wonderful gadgets we have now. But keep Obama in there and you will find out. His buddy soros will help him or he will help soros. You should really educate yourself on the man. He brags about bringing financial ruin to countries. He is on video talking about devalueing the US dollar. " The one obstacle to the new world order is America" That came from Soros and he is a big democrat donor, the left media matters too.

September 24, 2012 at 9:53 p.m.
ricardo said...

You go, disengaged. You forgot to mention marxism and Joseph Goebels. Rant like you really mean it!

September 24, 2012 at 9:59 p.m.
alprova said...

mymy cut and pasted: "Any serious plan for ending the housing crisis must address its root cause. Two government-sponsored companies known as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were at the center of the housing crisis."

Anyone that understands how those two GSE's operate and what they were set up to do, knows full and well that the GSE's were victims of what went down. They did not cause it.

For a lack of a better description, those GSE's were funded by the Fed to buy mortgages from banks, in order to free up more cash for banks to be able to lend more to other people desiring to purchase homes. The GSE's purchased those mortgages in good faith, believing that the loans were approved by the banks only after lending standards were followed to the letter.

Many banks side-stepped lending standards, allowing totally unqualfied loan brokers to write those loans, who failed to follow strict lending guidelines. Some of the banks were in on the rouse and because they knew that they could shove those loans onto the GSE's, they sold them knowing that the loans were likely tarnished.

Most of the bad loans written were awarded to housing investors, known as "flippers," many who purchased multiple properties by lying on their credit applications. Loan brokers also fudged the figures or outright lied on behalf of the borrower when documenting the creditworthiness of the applicant. Most of those investment minded "flippers" walked away from their obligations when everything went south.

By the time that the housing market collapsed, the GSE's as well as Wall Street were saturated with those poorly written loans, and they were saddled with the defaults.

"Mitt Romney will reform these government-sponsored companies to protect taxpayers from additional risk in the future by ensuring taxpayer dollars in the housing market are replaced with private dollars."

What Mitt Romney has proposed is to "deregulate the financial sector," and he has stated it repeatedly on the campaign trail. Anyone who had investments or a 401k in 2008-2009 should take note of his promise.

Deregulation of the financial sector is exactly what caused the Stock Market crash in 1929 that led to the Great Depression, and deregulation led to the week long Stock Market slide that began on October 6, 2008 as well. I was eyeball deep in the investment arena at the time, and I was privy to the investments of more than 200 clients at the time.

If Mitt Romney wins the election, I am pulling every single penny out that I have invested that can be remotely affected by the U.S. Stock Markets.

Other people can do whatever they please. I am not a financial adviser and I have never claimed to be one, but I do know a thing or two about how deregulation has severely and negatively affected this nation's financial system on two occasions, and the notion that Mitt Romney has the desire to do deregulate it AGAIN, tells me that the man has no clue how dangerous that prospect is.

September 24, 2012 at 10:08 p.m.
dude_abides said...
September 24, 2012 at 10:13 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

Alpo said: If Mitt Romney wins the election, I am pulling every single penny out that I have invested that can be remotely affected by the U.S. Stock Markets.

You're full of dupes bull penis.

September 24, 2012 at 10:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: I take it back about you being a Marxist. You're just a punk.

September 24, 2012 at 10:37 p.m.
alprova said...

degage wrote: "Yes they talked about a 150 to 250 fix but that went nowhere."

The law of the land dictated that no one drawing Social Security was entitled to a COLA raise. Why not accept that simple fact?

"They did forefit their raise for 2011,but according to the senator our group talked to they did get 2010 that is probably the reason some congressmen decided to forego 2011 raise and made that happen."

Congress did not draw one cent more in pay for years 2010 and 2011. Now this is a verifiable fact. Accept it, don't accept it. It makes no difference to me, but there is no one on the planet that can refute that fact.

"Your hill link only mentioned the 2011 raise. I never read snopes because they are usually left."

Snopes has amassed a stellar reputation for documenting the facts surrounding any issue that they write about.

"Medicare did go up, and so did co-pays, I should know."

What years are you referring to? I'll be happy to post the proof, one way or the other.

"Obamas agendas have not helped the seniors."

What "agendas" are you referring to?

I manage the personal finances and medical expenses for six senior citizens. All six have saved money during the past three years. Their supplemental premiums have risen slightly, but those premiums have been more than offset by savings in what has been spent for prescriptions, and payments by insurers in full to medical providers. None of the six have co-pays to worry about.

"you don't want to admit he stop drilling permits on gov held lands the only knew drilling is on private land and he has no say on that."

A barrel of oil drilled for in Oklahoma is worth the same amount as a barrel of oil drilled for in Saudi Arabia.

"His solar projects are still in infantcy and will be years before they get any better."

Solar panel companies have been around for three decades. Where have you been?

"He said in 2008 the coal companys will be bankrupt. Can't remember his exact words but I can see he meant it."

Burning coal is the absolute worst thing that can be spewed into the atmosphere. I'm sorry as can be that coal miners are poised to go the way of the buggy whip makers, but it's long past time for coal to go.

"Go green and our electricity goes up as it already has."

I pay less for electricity today than I did 18 years ago. My home bill runs about $100 a month, and my business bill averages about $80 a month.

I made energy-wise improvements that have saved me thousands of dollars over the past three years.

"You whipper-snappers don't have a clue how to do without the wonderful gadgets we have now. But keep Obama in there and you will find out."

Dare I even ask what you mean by that?

"His buddy soros...(big snip)"

I didn't have the heart to include your quote.

You're spending a great deal of time on right-wing sponsored sites, aren't you? Trust me, it drips from the ceiling in your posts.

September 24, 2012 at 11:06 p.m.
dude_abides said...

I will try to regain your respect and trust, Jack_. Is that avatar some sort of joke about those men killed on I-75 today? Did you find out they were Hispanic or African American or yankees, or what? Christ in a cumberbund, surely you're not still trying to milk some political advantage out of the death of our Ambassador to Libya. Even you are surely above that.

September 24, 2012 at 11:07 p.m.
alprova said...

TOES02800 wrote: "You're full of dupes bull penis."

Would you mind explaining what it is that you were attempting to convey in my direction? I can make no sense whatsoever out of that sentence.

September 24, 2012 at 11:09 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Ouch! Called sick by the Whore of Babylon! The admitted slimy haggard slut of the South! Well, at least toes appreciated it enough to steal the subject. Are you born again, tu_? Mrs. Jesus in the house?

September 24, 2012 at 11:27 p.m.
Jack_Dennis said...

dude_: really has a thing about Mary/Mrs. Jesus tonite. Ah the rants of the disturbed.

September 24, 2012 at 11:35 p.m.
alprova said...

Great News folks...I just crunched the results of 64 polls taken in the swing states, and the President is looking very good.

The President is now leading in ALL seven of the remaining swing states and I'm pleased to report that Wisconsin is now in the bag for Obama.

Mitt Romney has been consistently leading in North Carolina for the past two months, but tonight, President Obama has taken a very slight lead.

He now has 265 likely electoral votes in the bag. Five more and he's over the top. Romney remains at 191.

The details...

Obama leads in Wisconsin 52% - 43%

Here's the latest point spread in the remaining swing states;

Colorado - Obama over Romney 48% - 45%

Florida - Obama over Romney 47% - 45%

Iowa - Obama over Romney 47% - 44%

Nevada - Obama over Romney 49% - 45%

New Hampshire - Obama over Romney 47% - 44%

North Carolina - Obama over Romney 47% - 46%

Virginia - Obama over Romney by 49% - 45%

September 24, 2012 at 11:46 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Aah! Jack_ is renewed, since tu_ came to his emotional rescue. I notice tu_ avoided alprova, so as to feed on the lower hanging fruit and not have al tear her a new one. She would probably just get one of her "buff boys" to fill that new void with something. Takes plenty of nerve to tell us all of her disgusting habits and then bust on me because of a public service announcement.

September 24, 2012 at 11:48 p.m.
dude_abides said...

LOL Capitol One has done an Etch-A-Sketch commercial! Wow, there's a subliminal statement.

September 24, 2012 at 11:59 p.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said....

A barrel of oil drilled for in Oklahoma is worth the same amount as a barrel of oil drilled for in Saudi Arabia.

I think you will find that oil cannot legally be exported from the U.S. also, there is a difference in WTI crude and brint crude. Oil from Oklahoma is much closer to the refiners therefore cheaper at the pump. The government does get a royalty on most U.S. sourced oil but not on foreign oil.

September 24, 2012 at 11:59 p.m.
dude_abides said...

The Whore of Babylon is back to "disgusting is funny" within 15 minutes. The nerve.

September 25, 2012 at 12:01 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said... Great News folks...I just crunched the results of 64 polls taken in the swing states, and the President is looking very good.

Alprova....As I have stated, I don't care which wins but your opening of great news folks may not apply to some people here. I wonder why people need to vote if the winner is already known via polls?

I don't care who wins and I don't care which way the stock market moves as long as it stays open and routinely moves at least 5% or more one way or the other.

I just read an article attributed to the Washington Post that said the DNC rejected a group of local churches in Charlotte request to be allowed to provide welcome baskets to delegates containing local candies, maps and information about transportation but no literature regarding the churches beliefs regarding abortion. The DNC said no to churches because their beliefs differed from their platform. Is this true?

September 25, 2012 at 12:17 a.m.
fairmon said...

I read where Hobby Lobby is taking legal steps to stop the requirement that they include in their health care coverage the morning after or the week after pill. They consider it aborting a birth which conflicts with their beliefs and as owners of Hobby Lobby reject the notion they should be required to pay for such. See snopes and search hobby lobby for details. Seems they may want to team up with Chick-Fil-A. To me this mandate and kids to age 26 are not in the same category as pre-existing conditions and non-cancellation.

September 25, 2012 at 12:26 a.m.
fairmon said...

Is it true the DNC refused to allow local churches in Charlotte to hand out welcome baskets to delegates that contained samples of local candies, maps, transportation options and other helpful information about the city such as church locations, hospitals and emergency resources. The baskets did not contain literature about abortion beliefs etc. but the DNC said the churches beliefs were in conflict with their party platform so no thanks to the welcome. So much for free speech if any religious reference is included.

September 25, 2012 at 5:30 a.m.
alprova said...

Harp3339 wrote: "Oil from Oklahoma is much closer to the refiners therefore cheaper at the pump."

Transportation costs represent mere pennies per gallon.

September 25, 2012 at 8:44 a.m.
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