published Friday, August 29th, 2014

Canada

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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TheJackDennis said...

Alprova: Purveyor of whoopers.

August 29, 2014 at 12:12 a.m.
fairmon said...

Canada's economy began improving when they revamped their business tax laws. Our political leaders rather criticize and call business unpatriotic than address the complex favorites showing system we have. The number of inversions has increased and will continue increasing until congress takes the necessary steps to level the playing field for businesses with the rest of the world. How many people understand any legislatively imposed cost to a business is included in the cost of the product or services they purchase? It is not an advantage to have a business HQ designated as in the U.S.

August 29, 2014 at 2:23 a.m.
alprova said...

I've not eaten a Whopper in at least three years, big whiner. I eat out maybe once a week and it is NEVER fast food these days.


Fairmon, Burger King has been paying an effective Tax rate of 27%, according to an article I read yesterday, so their move to Canada is going to save them 1% at best in taxes.

Burger King's move to Canada is for one reason and one reason only. Their business in the United States has been declining for years and they want to set up shop in Canada for the business potential they believe will occur.

No business pays the full 40% in corporate taxes, unless they have incompetent accountants, so all this crap about a 40% corporate tax rate is smoke and mirrors, because no one is paying it.

Individuals often pay a higher percentage of their income for taxes than any business has ever been assessed. If and when the day ever comes that all cash disappears in the United States and all monetary exchanges are electronic, then the IRS will be able to truly track what goes in and what goes out of a business, but until then, cash can disappear and cash expenses cannot be challenged.

August 29, 2014 at 4:51 a.m.
alprova said...

Jackie, the biggest whiner in Knoxville, Tennessee, loves whoppers. Why he even confessed to making a whopper that could easily have endangered his life.

Remember Jackie?

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270586

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270592

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270593

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270595

August 29, 2014 at 4:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

Bloomberg.....About 43 U.S. companies have reincorporated in low-tax countries since 1982, including 13 since 2012. Nine plan to do so in the coming year. A lot of drug companies are doing it, and low-tax Ireland is a popular corporate home.

August 29, 2014 at 6:56 a.m.
fairmon said...

Bloomberg...It’s easy to see why multinational companies like to flee the U.S. tax system. The U.S. corporate income tax rate, 35 percent, is the highest in the developed world. The U.S. is also one of the few countries that makes its companies pay that rate on all the worldwide income it brings home — even if the profit was generated by a subsidiary in a foreign country with low taxes, such as Ireland. Many nations, including the U.K. and Canada, tax only domestic profits. One perverse result is that an independent U.S. company can end up paying more taxes than an identical U.S. company owned by a foreign parent. By creating or buying a foreign parent, a company escapes U.S. tax on worldwide income. Drug and technology companies find this particularly enticing because their profits stem from intellectual property such as patents. Transfer those patents to a subsidiary in a zero-tax jurisdiction like Bermuda, and voila! The bulk of profits, which would otherwise face the 35 percent income tax rate, aren’t taxed anywhere.

Why are profits earned in a foreign country subject to U.S. taxes when there was no U.S. contribution to those foreign profits?

Why does congress insist on U.S. taxes on any profits repatriated? The result is over two trillion not returned to the U.S. therefore encouraging that those foreign profits be invested in countries other than the U.S.?

August 29, 2014 at 7:06 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...Burger King's move to Canada is for one reason and one reason only. Their business in the United States has been declining for years and they want to set up shop in Canada for the business potential they believe will occur.

That of course is your opinion to which you are entitled and there may be a two fold agenda but taxes are a benefit should they seek to expand internationally like McDonalds, KFC and others have done.

August 29, 2014 at 7:15 a.m.
fairmon said...

The wisdom of those we elect never ceases to amaze me......

They sit on their do nothing hands and chatter about everything and do nothing about anything:

Pfizer has been a U.S. company since a German-born chemist by that name opened a red-brick laboratory in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn in 1849. This year, it proposed to become a British firm. The reason had nothing to do with manufacturing costs or access to foreign markets. It was to escape taxes. A financial exercise known as an “inversion” would allow it to lower its tax bills by acquiring a legal address abroad. Strange as the idea sounds, it’s an inevitable outgrowth of a peculiarity of the U.S. tax code and is becoming increasingly popular among American companies. Pfizer was the biggest and best known to join the trend.

August 29, 2014 at 7:18 a.m.
conservative said...

More power to Burger King!

I applaud anyone who legally escapes the confiscatory taxes imposed by Liberals in Congress on individuals and corporations.

Go ahead, hit me, I can hit back and harder, metaphorically speaking.

August 29, 2014 at 7:34 a.m.
fairmon said...

The Treasury estimates $17 billion will escape the U.S. tax system over the next decade.

By all means congress keep fiddling and bad mouthing businesses that act in the best interest of their business and investors.

You invent something and make the investment necessary to start a business in the U.S. and you will have a partner that had nothing invested and nothing at risk that insist on getting 35% of any profits for their minimal contribution unless you are a favorite. Favorites can be very profitable but still pay little to nothing by using tax breaks targeted for them. Those not favored can be taxed, assessed etc. to off set the revenue loss from the favored.

August 29, 2014 at 7:38 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

unfairmon quotes bad information intended to deceive with a whopper: " The U.S. corporate income tax rate, 35 percent, is the highest in the developed world." (It is in print, it must be true! But what about global warming, isn't that in print also???)

The tax rate for industry in the USA varies between 15%-39%, not taking into account various schemes to reduce total reported income and hence total tax which reduces the percent tax paid on profits. Conveniently, neither fairmon or Bloomberg report the number of US corporations that paid little or no tax. That would require too much work, and not serve the political purpose.

Argue about reorganizing and simplifying the whole tax code but stop the lying. A company that moves from the US to avoid paying taxes is putting greed ahead of patriotism, or to put it more directly, over John and Jane Q Public's best interest. But the leaders of these same companies are the ones getting socked with prison for tax evasion and also complain about having to pay taxes to help the poor. You tend to forget the massive investment of taxes in research that fuels the industrial engine these days. And paves the roads, but you get the point.

Of course they could move to Russia where the tax is only 20%...and leave a lot of the US workers unemployed (oops!).

For comparison here are the federal tax rates for industry in a few countries of the "developed world" (the whole list varies more or less between 10-35%):

The tax rate for industry in the USA varies between 15%-39%,

Angola: 35% Argentina 35% Bangladesh 0-45% Belgium 33.99% Brazil 34% Burundi 35% Canada 11-31% Denmark 25% France 33.33% Germany 29.8% (average) India 30% Ireland 25% Italy 27.5% Japan 38.01% Luxembourg 28% Mexico 30% South African 28% Switzerland 25% United Kingdom 24% decrease to 20% in 2015 Uruguay 30% Venezuela 34%

Now, I love how all you Reds who are so patriotic and loyal supporters of your country, willing to pay any price or its defense including laying down your own life, can hypocritically let ole connie speak for you, " I applaud anyone who escapes taxes imposed by Congress." Yessiree, patriots you are. Now you can move to Ontario where you can go to the local Canadian version of "Mr. Zip" and enjoy the public universal health care, and leave us alone.

August 29, 2014 at 8:14 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey inquiringmind, what are you doing to cause global warming?

August 29, 2014 at 8:17 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

et vous?

August 29, 2014 at 8:21 a.m.
conservative said...

inquiringmind

You are such a brazen liar. There is no other way to say it.

You have started again making up lying quotes about me.

Your lying quote attributed to me:

" I applaud anyone who escapes taxes imposed by Congress."

The truth:

"I applaud anyone who legally escapes the confiscatory taxes imposed by Liberals in Congress on individuals and corporations."

Now, I am going to make you wear your lie until you admit that you lied.

August 29, 2014 at 8:29 a.m.
alprova said...

I see Fairmon loves to set forth his arguments based on the worst case scenarios, rarely ever bowing to the reality of the situation.

Fairmon believes he has a handle on what motivates businesses to do the things they do.

The reality of the situation is as I laid it out earlier. It would be a rare company indeed that would pay 35% of their reported profits in taxes.

Everyone seems to forget the flap that was made over Mitt Romney's Bain Capital, a company that was extremely profitable to the tune of billions per year, the company paying less than Mitt, who paid a marginal tax rate of just 14%.

If Burger King wants to go up yonder to save 1% per annum and they believe they will be more profitable up there, more power to them.

The United States can live just fine without a whopper. In fact, they may live longer if no one eats one of the damn things. They are packed full of fat anyway.

August 29, 2014 at 8:37 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie believes it is ONLY the Liberals in Congress that are imposing "confiscatory" taxes on individuals and corporations.

I think Connie has found something he is even more uninformed about than the Bible.

The man is off in La La land on a good day as it is.

Don't overtax your brain Connie. You might have a meltdown.

August 29, 2014 at 8:55 a.m.
alprova said...

Hey Connie, are you ready to apologize to the TFP and retract your lie for claiming that they ran a story about gay bath houses?

Or are you going to live with that lie forever and answer to God for it?

I really want to see what kind of a Christian you truly are.

August 29, 2014 at 8:59 a.m.
conservative said...

Anti Christ Mr. Anthony Provancer, Mormon cult victim, will probably regurgitate some of his cult teachings today.

August 29, 2014 at 9:01 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"You are such a brazen liar. There is no other way to say it."

Well, isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black. We are still waiting for you to produce the proof for this:

On August 28th, 2014 at 8 am, Conservative said:

"This paper, the Times Free Press, ran a story a few days ago, about the bath houses complete with pictures of two sodomites lounging around wearing towels."

Produce the proof ConMan or drop your finger pointing.

(20 bucks says he: A) Changes the subject or B) Accuses me of lying)

August 29, 2014 at 9:02 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova said...

Hey Connie, are you ready to apologize to the TFP and retract your lie for claiming that they ran a story about gay bath houses?

Or are you going to live with that lie forever and answer to God for it?

I really want to see what kind of a Christian you truly are.

August 29, 2014 at 8:59 a.m.

========================================

They did run it under Latest News.

And the article does exist, contrary to your assertion that it didn't.

August 29, 2014 at 9:06 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo the Libeler apparently doesn't know what "purveyor" is. Limited education, I'd guess.

August 29, 2014 at 9:15 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

you were quoted quite accurately, subject- verb - object with modifying adjectival phrase, the qualifiers don't change the meaning of the English sentence: Connie sez,

"I (subject) applaud(verb) anyone(object) who(subject)...escapes(verb) ...taxes(object) imposed ...by...Congress....(adjectival modifying phrase)"; that is,

You "applaud people and corporations who evade taxes imposed by Congress."

August 29, 2014 at 9:16 a.m.
fairmon said...

IQ said...The tax rate for industry in the USA varies between 15%-39%, For comparison here are the federal tax rates for industry in a few countries of the "developed world" (the whole list varies more or less between 10-35%):

You failed to include Ireland, the Netherlands and Bermuda which has been the destination of most inversions.

August 29, 2014 at 9:26 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "They did run it under Latest News. And the article does exist, contrary to your assertion that it didn't."

I think you went and found it to TRY and cover your ass. The TFP did not run that article, no matter what you claim, for it is not found on the TFP search engine nor any of the internet search engines.

I'm not surprised to see that you have absolutely no scruples or shame to admit you were wrong about something. There is another on this site that seems to have the same problem with admitting to having purposely lied in this forum.

Hey...you've got lots to live with. Just don't you believe that you have any moral superiority to anyone else.

August 29, 2014 at 9:29 a.m.
alprova said...

"Alpo the Libeler apparently doesn't know what "purveyor" is. Limited education, I'd guess."

Jackie, there is no one who would consider you to be endowed with intelligence. Perhaps you are educated beyond your intelligence.

Maybe your "ally" will come and bail you out.

August 29, 2014 at 9:31 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo the Liar posts "I'm not surprised to see that you have absolutely no scruples or shame.." a hoot, coming from this wanker

August 29, 2014 at 9:32 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "You failed to include Ireland, the Netherlands and Bermuda which has been the destination of most inversions."

So...are we expecting you to invert to one of those nations soon?

August 29, 2014 at 9:33 a.m.
alprova said...

Jackie, perhaps you need to reread a post that was directed to you yesterday. It says it all.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/aug/27/climate-change/#c282112

August 29, 2014 at 9:36 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova said...

Connie wrote: "They did run it under Latest News. And the article does exist, contrary to your assertion that it didn't."

I think you went and found it to TRY and cover your ass. The TFP did not run that article, no matter what you claim, for it is not found on the TFP search engine nor any of the internet search engines.

I'm not surprised to see that you have absolutely no scruples or shame to admit you were wrong about something.

Hey...you've got lots to live with. Just don't you believe that you have any moral superiority to anyone else

============================================

I know for a fact they ran it.

They must have pulled it down just like they pulled Ms. Sohns article down, my comments and Ki comments.

You wasted your time implying I was sodomite yesterday and now you don't want to see the link that you insisted on so you must have found the article and the picture that you said did not exist.

You want to keep this up, fine with me.

August 29, 2014 at 9:40 a.m.
fairmon said...

Inqmind said..The tax rate for industry in the USA varies between 15%-39%, not taking into account various schemes to reduce total reported income and hence total tax which reduces the percent tax paid on profits. Conveniently, neither fairmon or Bloomberg report the number of US corporations that paid little or no tax. That would require too much work, and not serve the political purpose.

No political purpose in my statement...Favorites can be very profitable but still pay little to nothing by using tax breaks targeted for them. Those not favored can be taxed, assessed etc. to off set the revenue loss from the favored.

The number paying little to zero taxes paid and the near or the maximum are comparable but heaven forbid they all pay the same rate with zero government manipulation. What is the GM actual tax for the next five years?

Who actually pays the taxes or other legislatively imposed cost, including taxes, on any business? Local, state and federal taxes and other cost imposed by governments account for a healthy percent of the cost to consumers for a product or service. Estimates range from 22% to over 30%.

August 29, 2014 at 9:44 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "I know for a fact they ran it."

Yeah, uh huh, sure...

"They must have pulled it down just like they pulled Ms. Sohns article down, my comments and Ki comments."

That too is another lie. Your comments were never pulled off this site.

"You wasted your time implying I was sodomite yesterday and now you don't want to see the link that you insisted on so you must have found the article and the picture that you said did not exist"

I thought you were the guy who made his living on the internet. You can't even post a link?

Good Gosh man, you're a bastion of untruths lately, aren't you?

"You want to keep this up, fine with me."

Naw...I've got much better things to do rather than to indulge you in your trolling of this forum all day long...

August 29, 2014 at 9:45 a.m.
conservative said...

You are a liar inquiringmind

My words:

"I applaud anyone who legally escapes the confiscatory taxes imposed by Liberals in Congress on individuals and corporations."

Your lie about what I wrote inquiringmind:

" I applaud anyone who escapes taxes imposed by Congress."

August 29, 2014 at 9:46 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo, aka the whopper, is a notorious liar and libeler. Any reader should be aware of this when reading his posts. The man will say anything.

August 29, 2014 at 9:47 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said..The United States can live just fine without a whopper. In fact, they may live longer if no one eats one of the damn things. They are packed full of fat anyway.

You sound a lot like VP Joe Byden if you recall his brilliant response to a question about the U.S. tax rate and some companies relocating off shore.

Those wanting a whopper can still buy them with the current price possibly lasting a little longer since taxes won't take away as much of the profits plus the synergy of reduced overhead in a larger company.

August 29, 2014 at 9:52 a.m.
conservative said...

Brazen liar Mr. Anthony Provancher wrote:

They must have pulled it down just like they pulled Ms. Sohns article down, my comments and Ki comments."

That too is another lie. Your comments were never pulled off this site.

=======================================

You are a brazen liar. Ms. Sohns article was pulled down, my comment was pulled down, Ki's comment was pulled also.

The article was then reposted the following day and is there today with my new comment about Ms. Sohn's quotas.

You need to be corrected like a child.

August 29, 2014 at 9:53 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Connie, Alpo probably had it pulled down. He whines to TFP so much that they've become BFF's.

August 29, 2014 at 9:56 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "Who actually pays the taxes or other legislatively imposed cost, including taxes, on any business? Local, state and federal taxes and other cost imposed by governments account for a healthy percent of the cost to consumers for a product or service. Estimates range from 22% to over 30%."

Guess what? You just negated all of your arguments. If it is the consumer paying all those costs, then no corporation has a bitch in this world about what they are taxed, do they?

The last estimate I read, amounts to 23% in embedded taxes that consumers pay, and that corporations never pay.

Burger King may find itself losing more and more business with this decision, for Americans seem to have a sore spot with foreign firms.

I'd be willing to bet that they will amend this decision within months, if they go through with it at all.

August 29, 2014 at 9:59 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie, your word is no good in this forum. You're going to have to prove your points or have them ignored.

You had no comments pulled.

August 29, 2014 at 10 a.m.
alprova said...

The Big Whiner wrote: "Connie, Alpo probably had it pulled down. He whines to TFP so much that they've become BFF's."

Okay...when I get to one of my other computers, I'm going to be posting the e-mail I received about your incessant whining.

You just had to push it, didn't you?

August 29, 2014 at 10:02 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Fire away, liar. I've never denied complaining about you violating the "no Libel" policy expressed by TFP. They clearly aren't interested in enforcing their own policy. BTW, you're working off the books again today, huh?

August 29, 2014 at 10:07 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova said...

Connie, your word is no good in this forum. You're going to have to prove your points or have them ignored.

You had no comments pulled.

August 29, 2014 at 10 a.m.

==========================

You are a liar and Ki can verify it

August 29, 2014 at 10:09 a.m.
alprova said...

"Mr. Provancher, I apologize for writing you on your business account, but the email I sent to the address I have for you bounced back to me as undeliverable." (I changed Internet Providers)

"First, let me say thanks for your continued contributions to the comments sections [redacted], it's great to have regulars like you and [Redacted] holding up the progressive side of the debate."

"I would like to ask you for a favor, however."

"My colleague ]redacted] may have written you about this, but lately, we've been getting complaints from ‘TheJackDennis’ about you and [redacted] referring to him an "admitted sex offender" in your online posts. I fully realize that this issue arose when a rap sheet of a Knoxville sex offender was posted as possibly being ‘TheJackDennis’, and I know that he wrote a comment in response to that confirming that it was. Now, I have no idea why he wrote that, or what he was thinking when he did (I think that about all of his posts, though). All I do know is that he now insists that the person in the mug shot is not him and that the related criminal record is not his."

"This is where the favor comes in, Alprova. I know it's fun to use this against ‘TheJackDennis’ and that he’s brought much of this on himself, but could you please refrain from using this line of attack? It's easy enough to attack this guy for his inane political beliefs without using a claim that he insists is spurious."

"I know how hateful his comments can be and how hard it is not to return it in kind, but if you could resist from making the ‘sex offender’ accusations from here on out, I would really appreciate it."

"Thanks for your time and thank you again for your contribution to the debates on the Times Free Press site."

[redacted]

Chattanooga Times Free Press www.timesfreepress.com>

400 East 11th Street Chattanooga, TN 37403 423.757.6588

fairmon said...

alprova said...Guess what? You just negated all of your arguments. If it is the consumer paying all those costs, then no corporation has a bitch in this world about what they are taxed, do they?

What a ridiculous statement and conclusion. The consumer does pay any and all legislatively imposed cost to a business however, the consumer may not buy or buy an import or from another source that is cheaper. Those corporations paying those imposed cost must add them to the price but they can be detrimental to the business and cost jobs or lower worker wages.

August 29, 2014 at 10:31 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You are a liar and Ki can verify it"

Why can't YOU verify it?

August 29, 2014 at 10:31 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

HAHAHAHA Nice objectivity by Mark Jones and TFP, huh? Fair and balanced. As biased and silly as his email was, you couldn't find your way into following his request, could you. nothing changes the fact that you lie and libel...you hang your hat on a tongue n cheek "confession". Lame

August 29, 2014 at 10:33 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...Burger King may find itself losing more and more business with this decision, for Americans seem to have a sore spot with foreign firms.

As indicated by what? Reduced purchases of imported autos, Wally shoppers, textiles/clothing? The spot apparently is not too sore.

I am not a Burger King fan or patriot and could care less how their business goes. I do think they are a poorly managed company and will not improve unless they improve quality, service and the appearance of many of their locations.

August 29, 2014 at 10:36 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "What a ridiculous statement and conclusion."

Really? You just admitted that no corporation pays their own taxes and instead saddles their customers with those taxes, so what is there to bitch about?

"The consumer does pay any and all legislatively imposed cost to a business however, the consumer may not buy or buy an import or from another source that is cheaper."

That's business, isn't it?

"Those corporations paying those imposed cost must add them to the price but they can be detrimental to the business and cost jobs or lower worker wages."

You're going to offer circular arguments about all of this, aren't you? I respond to one point and you bring up another.

Fairmon, the effective or marginal tax rates in the United States are nowhere near the maximums at the top of that tier, and you SHOULD know it. Youi claim to be an investor, and so you should be privy to all kinds of information about the companies you invest in.

The problem as I see it, is that you are entrenched in foreign investments more so than you are in American investments. If that is correct, you are already a traitor to this nation, and thus I hope you lose your ass if you continue to bet against the U.S. Dollar.

August 29, 2014 at 10:38 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "As indicated by what? Reduced purchases of imported autos, Wally shoppers, textiles/clothing? The spot apparently is not too sore."

Food is a different matter.

August 29, 2014 at 10:39 a.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the big whiner wrote: "HAHAHAHA Nice objectivity by Mark Jones and TFP, huh?"

I assure you, it was not from Mark Jones.

"Fair and balanced. As biased and silly as his email was, you couldn't find your way into following his request, could you."

Oh...but I have, to the letter. I have not used the "P" word to describe you since the day that I received that request.

Everything else is fair game.

"nothing changes the fact that you lie and libel...you hang your hat on a tongue n cheek "confession". Lame"

As always, the lies are your lies, and it's very hard to libel someone who posted an archived confession.

But, you're going to continue to deny all, for all the good it is doing you to do so.

August 29, 2014 at 10:44 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

fairmon,

I did not include provincial and local taxes that also vary quite a bit. I also could have added the two countries you mention but it does not prove anything other than my point, corporate greed, WAIT! The Supreme Court sez corporations are persons so, personal greed demands one seek the least taxed location possible at the expense of the good of the society. Ireland with its so robust economy helps with that.

We should, if we do not, have a minimum tax law for corporate persons like we do for persons.

August 29, 2014 at 10:51 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo, Mark Jones it was and I will remind him that you violated his trust and published his email. You are worthless. The last laugher laughs best. Remember that, liar.

August 29, 2014 at 10:58 a.m.

This from a cartoonist character who thinks corporate tax rates in the U.S. are too low.

August 29, 2014 at 10:59 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

And so Obama, who has long been reluctant to enter into the Syrian conflict, told reporters Thursday that “we don’t have a strategy yet” for confronting ISIS on a regional level. Toon-Boy Clay, how about a toon reflecting this scary lack of leadership?

August 29, 2014 at 11:06 a.m.

Good for BK. The point of being in business is to make a profit, period.

Regarding ISIS and BO. I don't understand why at this point there isn't a strategy of some kind.

August 29, 2014 at 11:13 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

TJD, did you actually listen to the press conference? If you did you would understand exactly what was meant rather than try to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Shouldn't we expect a reasonable approach to the issue from you?

August 29, 2014 at 11:22 a.m.

T

August 29, 2014 at 11:31 a.m.

The WH spokesmouth just emphasized that we're not at war with ISIS.

There's still this belief by the left that radical islamofacists can be reasoned with.

They're not sovereign country, they just slaughter, behead,terrorize and crucify.

August 29, 2014 at 11:35 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

IQ: I did. reasonable is one thing. Lacking a plan is another. No one in the WH seems to have a feel for foreign policy. JMO.

August 29, 2014 at 11:36 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You are a liar and Ki can verify it"

Why can't YOU verify it?

August 29, 2014 at 10:31 a.m.

=============================

Well I could call the TFP and they could verify what I already know, but what good would that do?

They are not going to come on here and make a fool out of you, are they?

However, like I said, Ki can verify they pulled the story and our comments.

But then this might stop.

I don't care if it stops or not because any reasonable person can see you just want to call me a liar and are desperate to do so.

August 29, 2014 at 11:40 a.m.
alprova said...

Mr. Potato Head wrote: "Alpo, Mark Jones it was and I will remind him that you violated his trust and published his email. You are worthless. The last laugher laughs best. Remember that, liar."

Knock yourself out you idiot. I was never contacted by Mark Jones.

August 29, 2014 at 11:52 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

TJD,

We are far off the subject of this cartoon but I reply:

The message is, "We don't want ISIL to know what we are planning, and if possible want to give them a false sense of security/keep them guessing until we act."

I don't expect them to tell me what it is, that is the point of secrecy. I even expect disinformation to off put ISIL. Your complaint might actually help with the smokescreen.

I heard an interesting comment. By projecting a sense of weakness, it causes the factions to turn on each other, note how Al Qaida released a prisoner almost as if it was trying to "distance" itself from ISIL tactics (not to give AQ any plaudits, tho). Obama, to my objection, is a bit more Machiavellian with his foreign policy.

And as far a Z-fister's comment, I doubt very seriously anyone in government or out thinks ISIL can be reasoned with, but I also suspect persons with responsibility for action realize ISIL is coldly rational in how they are using their version of Islam to suppress the population, acting just like the Khmer Rouge, Hitler, and Putin.

Speaking of toot'n Putin, Ukraine, however, is a modern day Cuban Missile Crisis remote from our borders and biding our time might be the best bet. Biding our time gives Europe time to get the stomach to respond to a threat at their doorstep.

August 29, 2014 at 11:56 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "However, like I said, Ki can verify they pulled the story and our comments."

I doubt Ki will back you up on the gay bath story being pulled. It WAS NOT carried by this newspaper and you damn well know it.

Even if the story had been pulled, the search engines would have linked to a error 404 page.

Were you vulgar with Ki? I'm vulgar all the time with you and my posts never disappear.

You must have been a really bad boy.

August 29, 2014 at 11:57 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "I don't care if it stops or not because any reasonable person can see you just want to call me a liar and are desperate to do so."

Is there ANYONE who has not called you a liar? I need not post a word. Your reputation is what it is.

August 29, 2014 at noon
conservative said...

Connie wrote: "However, like I said, Ki can verify they pulled the story and our comments."

I doubt Ki will back you up on the gay bath story being pulled. It WAS NOT carried by this newspaper and you damn well know it.

=================================

It was not a gay story it was a story about quotas which is up right now.

Who do you think you are fooling?

August 29, 2014 at 12:16 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

I will ad that there is NO GREATER liar on forum than Alprova. Period.

August 29, 2014 at 12:20 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova said...

Connie wrote: "I don't care if it stops or not because any reasonable person can see you just want to call me a liar and are desperate to do so."

Is there ANYONE who has not called you a liar? I need not post a word. Your reputation is what it is.

August 29, 2014 at noon

=====================================

"Is there ANYONE who has not called you a liar? I need not post a word. Your reputation is what it is."

==============================================================

Of course, there are many who have not called me a liar.

Who did you have in mind.

You have never proved I lied about anything.

I have quoted your lies often.

Would you like an encore?

August 29, 2014 at 12:20 p.m.
alprova said...

Oh brother...

Connie you have been proven a liar many times, especially when it comes to your understanding of the Bible.

You've lied when engaging with others as well, and they too have exposed your intentional lies.

You STILL refuse to own up to your most recent lie, which was to claim the TFP ran a story about Gay baths.

It did not happen.

Admit to it.

As to what you have quoted that I have posted, not one of those truisms have been successfully refuted by you or anyone else.

You're lying again and that one was a;

WHOPPER!!

August 29, 2014 at 12:20 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan loves them gay bathhouses. Too bad he feels he has to lie to cover up for an enjoyment in his life.

August 29, 2014 at 12:21 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova said...

Connie wrote: "They did run it under Latest News. And the article does exist, contrary to your assertion that it didn't."

I think you went and found it to TRY and cover your ass. The TFP did not run that article, no matter what you claim, for it is not found on the TFP search engine nor any of the internet search engines.

I'm not surprised to see that you have absolutely no scruples or shame to admit you were wrong about something.

Hey...you've got lots to live with. Just don't you believe that you have any moral superiority to anyone else

============================================

I know for a fact they ran it.

They must have pulled it down just like they pulled Ms. Sohns article down, my comments and Ki comments.

You wasted your time implying I was sodomite yesterday and now you don't want to see the link that you insisted on so you must have found the article and the picture that you said did not exist.

You want to keep this up, fine with me.

August 29, 2014 at 12:30 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the big whiner wrote: "I will ad that there is NO GREATER liar on forum than Alprova. Period."

I could ad that you are the ugliest female on the planet, but that wouldn't be true either, would it?

Give up the ghost dickhead. You're laughed at on a daily basis.

August 29, 2014 at 12:34 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie, your redundency does nothing but waste space.

You can maintain that the story was ran by this newspaper until the cows come home, but with no proof, you're back on the defensive as a self-loathing gay man.

August 29, 2014 at 12:36 p.m.
conservative said...

Brazen anti Christ Mr. Anthony Provancher wrote:

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath."

"I do not and never will hold the belief that the Bible is the word of God. You will not shame me into such a belief, no matter how many times you try."

"And again, you fail to include the scripture I cited that proves that Jesus himself did not consider himself to be perfect and without sin."

"Jesus cannot be God"

August 29, 2014 at 12:37 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher seems to love making a fool of himself.

I am not going to post the link today that he accuses me of lying about.

I want him to keep repeating his lie so I can expose him once again.

If anyone is interested in the article you can search:

"Gay Bathhouses Nationwide Face Uncertain Future"

There will be numerous cites carrying the story, some with a picture of two sodomites on wooden chaise lounges dressed in towels.

As long as Mr. Anthony Provancher keeps calling me a liar on the matter, I will probably milk it before I post one with the picture.

Hey, when they insist on being a fool why stop them?

August 29, 2014 at 12:41 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

My mission is to convince people of your lies and deception. Day by day.

August 29, 2014 at 12:41 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the TFP whiner wrote: "My mission is to convince people of your lies and deception. Day by day."

Okay...you do that. I'm going to be quivering in my pink bunny slippers, and yesiree I do have two of them on the floor today.

August 29, 2014 at 12:46 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "I am not going to post the link today that he accuses me of lying about."

That's because you are so computer savvy, that you don't know how to post a link.

"I want him to keep repeating his lie so I can expose him once again."

Not this time Pal. You lied and you owe the TFP an apology for they did not run that story.

"As long as Mr. Anthony Provancher keeps calling me a liar on the matter, I will probably milk it before I post one with the picture."

You just be sure to post the one link to one the TFP published moron.

August 29, 2014 at 12:50 p.m.
alprova said...

On my way out the door for some good ole' physical therapy...

Today, their gonna teach me to kick some ass with my new titanium foot.

August 29, 2014 at 12:53 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

^^^^ our tax dollars at work.

August 29, 2014 at 2:11 p.m.

Headline on the Drudge Report has to do with attacks on our Southern border by terrorists.

Why wouldn't they take advantage of a weekness?

August 29, 2014 at 2:32 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Hasn't been one yet Fister. Terrorists aren't going to "attack our Southern borders", they'll do something for recognition; like flying airliners into skyscrapers.

August 29, 2014 at 2:43 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Open borders....allow the love.

August 29, 2014 at 2:44 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Attacks on our Southern borders" are about as real as the Times Free Press story on "gay bathhouses".

August 29, 2014 at 2:48 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher seems to love making a fool of himself.

I am not going to post the link today that he accuses me of lying about.

I want him to keep repeating his lie so I can expose him once again.

If anyone is interested in the article you can search:

"Gay Bathhouses Nationwide Face Uncertain Future"

There will be numerous cites carrying the story, some with a picture of two sodomites on wooden chaise lounges dressed in towels.

As long as Mr. Anthony Provancher keeps calling me a liar on the matter, I will probably milk it before I post one with the picture.

Hey, when they insist on being a fool why stop them?

August 29, 2014 at 2:49 p.m.
Ki said...

This just in: And from a right-wing leaning online sites.

Police lobby gear up to protect militarization of law enforcement:

http://personalliberty.com/police-lobby-gears-protect-militarization-law-enforcement/

who will be their sacrificial "lamb" or LAMBS to help drive home the point?

While most everyone were harping on private unions and their influence on politicians, they missed two of the of the most powerful unions with powerful lobbyist in the public sector: police unions and the union of prison guards and their powerful lobbyists who influence laws and prison population size.

August 29, 2014 at 3:19 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan. No one is lying but you, fool. Do you honestly believe that anyone believes you? You lied and were busted and the only person being "exposed" is YOU!

And ConMan "searching Gay Bathhouses Nationwide"; go figure.

August 29, 2014 at 3:22 p.m.

Guass, no they won't. They did that, and they're not going to be doing something they know we're looking for and have done already.

It's idiotic and it's illogical to believe there won't be any attacks through our southern border. It's a weakness and it wouldn't make any sense to not take advantage of it on their part.

Now Bo is talking about consulting with Congress, and getting their input, while almost all the time he talks about going at it alone on many things.

August 29, 2014 at 3:32 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Golly Z, why would we need more terrorists attacking our southern borders, we have a religious(sic) terrorist right here at home flaming everything in sight?

August 29, 2014 at 3:41 p.m.
timbo said...

When someone move to Canada because of low regulation and lower taxes...you really need to do some soul searching.

What do you expect with a corporate tax rate of 35%!!!!

August 29, 2014 at 3:42 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Fister, hence the word "like" from my post.

Terrorists aren't going to "attack our Southern borders", they'll do something for recognition; like flying airliners into skyscrapers.

August 29, 2014 at 3:44 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"What do you expect with a corporate tax rate of 35%!!!!"

We expect guys like you to actually believe that most corporations are paying 35%.

August 29, 2014 at 3:45 p.m.

Really..so the feds come out with an imminent warning, and somehow you know for sure? They will attack our southern border because it's a gaping hole. It'll be for "recognition", and it will come through our southern border with Mexico.

August 29, 2014 at 3:50 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the hypocrite wrote: "^^^^ our tax dollars at work."

Coffin dodger, aren't you on Social Security and Medicare youreself?

Why yes you are.

Kiss my ever-loving ass you hypocrite.

August 29, 2014 at 3:51 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

timbo, I call paying the tax Congress constitutionally established to be a patriotic duty, I guess you are one of those relativists who decide circumstances determine morality.

August 29, 2014 at 4:14 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Lie-Boy, you should be the last one calling anyone a coffin dodger.

August 29, 2014 at 4:17 p.m.
alprova said...

I'm not dodging coffins at all. My heart is as good as new. Never had a heart attack. I'm learning to walk again.

Life is good and I'm set for a long rest of my life....a long life.

Unless you want to reclaim the identity that has you squealing like a pig to the TFP, you're about 80 years old.

Which identity are you going to claim today?

August 29, 2014 at 4:23 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

alpo says "I assure you, it was not from Mark Jones." the lies just roll out naturally, huh Anthony

August 29, 2014 at 4:23 p.m.
alprova said...

Look you moron, I swear on the life of my children that the person who contacted me was not Mark Jones.

Is that good enough for you?

But you go ahead and make and ass of yourself all over again. It's no skin off my nose, I assure you.

August 29, 2014 at 4:25 p.m.
conservative said...

inquiringmind said...

timbo, I call paying the tax Congress constitutionally established to be a patriotic duty, I guess you are one of those relativists who decide circumstances determine morality.

August 29, 2014 at 4:14 p.m.

=================================================

You mean like if you are a career sodomite and can find an apostate "church" to give you membership then it is not immoral.

August 29, 2014 at 4:30 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Fister, have you checked the date? They issue warnings like this every time it gets close to 9/11. You stay locked up in your bedroom; I'm going to live my life.

August 29, 2014 at 4:30 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"You mean like if you are a career sodomite "

Hey ConMan. You are the one surfing the web, looking for "gay bathhouses".

August 29, 2014 at 4:31 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo, says "But you go ahead and make and ass of yourself all over again. It's no skin off my nose, I assure you". Speaking of faces, please remove that avatar. There may be women and children looking.

August 29, 2014 at 4:33 p.m.
conservative said...

Is Homosexuality/sodomy immoral conduct GaussianInteger?

August 29, 2014 at 4:35 p.m.
fairmon said...

inquiringmind said...

fairmon,

I did not include provincial and local taxes that also vary quite a bit. I also could have added the two countries you mention but it does not prove anything other than my point, corporate greed, WAIT! The Supreme Court sez corporations are persons so, personal greed demands one seek the least taxed location possible at the expense of the good of the society. Ireland with its so robust economy helps with that. We should, if we do not, have a minimum tax law for corporate persons like we do for persons.


We do. Some persons pay zero and others get a refund greater than taxes paid, it is called an earned income credit, welfare any way you label it hidden in the tax system. Some corporations pay zero but no refund to off set losses or to help with expenses, should they be treated like all other citizens?

There is no corporate greed involved in good business decisions. Seeking the lowest tax rate is actually acting in the best interest of society and investors by helping keep the cost of their products down so people can better afford them which stimulates growth resulting in more job opportunities.

The greed is in governments that continuously seek more revenue to feed their constituents greed so they get, essentially buy, their vote. It is the short sighted politician and citizen that cannot understand that lower prices increases demand and the need to produce more if the American company is not unnecessarily tax and regulation cost burdened so people select their products and services they will grow and add jobs. We have evolved to a services based economy which is not an import candidate and is not wealth creating but only moves money around with the wealthy and government taking vigorish each exchange. The wealth gap widens.

Why should a business with major investments at risk and people employed with no profits pay a minimum tax when people with low incomes pay zero? That sounds a lot like short sighted greed.

Ireland's economy has improved ever since they revised their tax system to be less punitive for having a business there.

August 29, 2014 at 4:48 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Gassy never answers questions. He just takes pot-shots.

August 29, 2014 at 4:48 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

greed is when a company puts self-interest as a basis of "good business decisions" above national interest faimon, plain and simple, you can't dress it up as if it was just "good business decisions" unless you want to separate and valuate corporate and national interests differently. Price pressure drives decisions like moving off-shore which in fact puts corporate interest and corporate cowardice above national interest. If a company can't make a go of it manufacturing something in the USA, it ought to invest in product/technology that does sell, or just run for cover and say to hell with the American worker.

You corporate Reds like to sound so patriotic but when push comes to shove, you are the first out the door running from responsibility.

Give me the net max dollar impact of the earned income tax credit against what the Fortune 100 companies would pay of their corporate income tax was 10% of its profit.

August 29, 2014 at 5 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Gassy never answers questions. He just takes pot-shots."

What questions have I "never answered"? Are you referring to ConMan's question? That clown won't admit he was caught lying and then chastises people because they caught him.

Look, I realize that Jesse, Jt, etc. don't post anymore. But you are heading in the wrong direction by trying to gain approval from ConMan.

August 29, 2014 at 5:03 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Is Homosexuality/sodomy immoral conduct GaussianInteger?"

Nope.

August 29, 2014 at 5:05 p.m.
conservative said...

Is Homosexuality/sodomy immoral conduct GaussianInteger?

August 29, 2014 at 5:05 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

August 29, 2014 at 5:05 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger said...

"Is Homosexuality/sodomy immoral conduct GaussianInteger?"

Nope.

August 29, 2014 at 5:05 p.m.

===================================================

"Is Homosexuality/sodomy conduct sin GaussianInteger?"

August 29, 2014 at 5:06 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Gassy. Not trying to gain anyone's approval. That's an Alpo tactic.

August 29, 2014 at 5:16 p.m.
conservative said...

Perhaps all those people are fleeing America's high taxes along with Burger King.

August 29, 2014 at 5:53 p.m.
alprova said...

Z-man wrote: "Really..so the feds come out with an imminent warning, and somehow you know for sure? They will attack our southern border because it's a gaping hole. It'll be for "recognition", and it will come through our southern border with Mexico."

Bull crap. You warmongering chicken wing flappers are at it again.

You need to give up living. You're sh!t scared of blacks, Hispanics, and now British ISIS members.

You're going to have a stroke very soon. No man can be that afraid and his heart continue to beat.

August 29, 2014 at 6:07 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

^^ sick post

August 29, 2014 at 6:10 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

‘Disastrous Soundbite’: Liberal Pundits Baffled By Obama’s ‘We Don’t Have A Strategy’

must be tough defending this guy

August 29, 2014 at 6:19 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Is Homosexuality/sodomy conduct sin GaussianInteger?"

"No" is a pretty simple word to understand. Almost every human being on this planet understands its meaning and even most canines. I cannot figure out why you are having such a difficult time deciphering that little two letter word.

Jack, you still haven't shared what "questions" I never answer. While you figure them out, I'm heading off to watch a high school football game. It's the weekend. Drink a beer or something. ConMan, go visit a gay bathhouse.

August 29, 2014 at 6:27 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Disastrous Soundbite’: Liberal Pundits Baffled By Obama’s ‘We Don’t Have A Strategy’"

I recommend the Reagan Middle East strategy. Leave the area and let those countries sort it out.

August 29, 2014 at 6:28 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Gassy, too bad you can't ask Ghadaffi about Reagan's strategy.

August 29, 2014 at 6:36 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger said...

"Is Homosexuality/sodomy conduct sin GaussianInteger?"

"No" is a pretty simple word to understand. Almost every human being on this planet understands its meaning and even most canines. I cannot figure out why you are having such a difficult time deciphering that little two letter word.

=============================================================

Hey, I understand 'No" but I had not asked you if Homosexuality/sodomy was sin only if it was immoral.

To a Conservative the answer to both is yes, to a Liberal who knows until they answer.

So thanks. Now, ask me if I voted for Romney without assuming I did and saying that I did.

August 29, 2014 at 6:46 p.m.
alprova said...

Somebody misfires a missile and suddenly Ronald Reagan is a hero.

Good God...

August 29, 2014 at 6:56 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie, when are you going to apologize to the TFP for the heinous lie you have been purporting in this forum about the newspaper printing a story about gay bath houses?

You hideous liar.

You concocted that story to cover your ass about knowing a thing about the attire worn at gay bath houses, you pathetic self-deprecating gay man.

I'll bet you sit in front of your computer naked as a jaybird, manually manipulating yourself while you post your gay porn online all day.

August 29, 2014 at 7:02 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

There IS a hideous liar here Alpy. Look inward.

August 29, 2014 at 7:09 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

This board has sunk into madness

August 29, 2014 at 7:12 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher, defender/promoter of sodomy wrote:

You concocted that story to cover your ass about knowing a thing about the attire worn at gay bath houses, you pathetic self-deprecating gay man.

===========================================================

"Gay Bathhouses Nationwide Face Uncertain Future"

Look at picture of sodomite on chaise lounge wearing towel.

Mr. Anthony Provancher, is Homosexuality/sodomy sin?

August 29, 2014 at 7:16 p.m.
conservative said...

inquiringmind

Are these two statements blasphemy? -

"Jesus sinned"

"Jesus cannot be God"

August 29, 2014 at 7:22 p.m.
Ki said...

In the meantime here's an update to america's militarization of it's police force:

How did America's police departments "lose" loads of military-issued weapons?

Investigation by Fusion

http://fusion.net/leadership/story/americas-police-departments-lose-loads-military-issued-weapons-984250

August 29, 2014 at 8:01 p.m.
fairmon said...

inquiringmind said...

greed is when a company puts self-interest as a basis of "good business decisions" above national interest faimon, plain and simple, you can't dress it up as if it was just "good business decisions" unless you want to separate and valuate corporate and national interests differently.

People don't start businesses and risk everything as a patriotic good will gesture. I don't buy stock nor do others buy stock in a company as a good will patriotic gesture. The tax on any business should be ZERO which the prices would reflect to the benefit of all consumers and it would create a need to hire more people to meet the increased demand.

inquiring said...Price pressure drives decisions like moving off-shore which in fact puts corporate interest and corporate cowardice above national interest.

You are entitled to an opinion even if it reflects business and economics ignorance.

inquiring said..If a company can't make a go of it manufacturing something in the USA, it ought to invest in product/technology that does sell, or just run for cover and say to hell with the American worker.

Why should they expand high technical business, they can't feel the technical jobs now, there are not enough people with the knowledge skill and ability to fill openings. If your attitude were prevalent more would probably just say screw America, they don't appreciate us, let them see how well they do with no businesses except those providing services which they can no longer afford nor will they have the ability to buy cheap imports.

August 29, 2014 at 8:57 p.m.
fairmon said...

inquiring said...you can't dress it up as if it was just "good business decisions" unless you want to separate and valuate corporate and national interests differently.

Tell me what does the U.S. provide a business that should entice them to pay significantly higher taxes and other government cost they can't get in countries that are more appreciative of what they do for their country other than paying a high tax rate. Just how obligated are businesses beyond providing a safe clean place to work and earn a living and compensating employees commensurate with their contribution. McDonalds employees are demanding $15 an hour, how much knowledge skill and ability does it take to say do you want fries and a drink with that.

August 29, 2014 at 9:08 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Fsirmon, Your knowledge of economics is strikingly poor. If the cost of labor is $15/hr then the product must sell for what is required for that labor cost, duh.

Burgers cost too much? No, you were selling them too cheaply using a business model that is flawed because it requires maintaining economic inequity in the labor force. You are completely wrong about the availability of technical talent. In a changing world, those who don't change get left behind. You can hire all the engineers and scientists you want, they are out there.

Many GM or owners of old-school companies in this town are so averse to risk they cannot cope with risk or bright, young technical talent, and the necessity to invest in new technology to survive.

But back to wages. You say, provide “a safe clean place to work and earn a living and compensating employees commensurate with their contribution. It is more than that, it is providing a safe clean place to work and earn a basic standard of living.

A family qualifies for assistance if wages are less than 200% of the poverty level. In 2012 the poverty level was $22,350 for a family of 4. For a standard 2080 hr work year the POVERTY level is $10.75/hr. The $15/hr you say McDonalds employees want is 40% higher than the poverty level for a family of 4, and the family would STILL qualify for assistance.

To avoid an assistance program, the wager earner would need to earn $21.50/hr ($44,720). The minimum wage is $7.25/hr ($15,080/yr). A husband and wife earning minimum wage can't make it without assistance, at least one child would need to drop out of school and work full time and to get the family to the point on not being eligible for assistance!

Are you getting the picture? Businesses, burger bars particularly, want to keep people in poverty, not pay a living wage, so they can sell goods at prices that allow people to buy in quantities that make the business money. They could pay their employees a living wage and be profitable selling less burgers at a higher price, with the benefit that their employees now stop spitting in the raw hamburger meat.....duh.

The problem is, business has wandered away from the idea of cost of producing goods determining market price using a fair living wage.

So spare me any idea that business is altruistic.

You speak like a good Chamber of Commerce apologist but your example of corporate economics depends on maintaining people in poverty. It cannot last. But nice try.

August 29, 2014 at 10:20 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Well said, Inquiringmind. Bravo.

August 29, 2014 at 10:55 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Thank you GI, but there is a "hole" in my argument. If sales volume goes down so does number of workforce employees. This further emphasizes education and more engineers/scientists to develop sophisticated products that can employ the minimum wage person. The predicament forces us to accept or reject that to provide for all means those who have much have enough and those who have little have enough.

Grace and peace

August 30, 2014 at 12:51 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Mr. Anthony Provancher, is Homosexuality/sodomy sin?"

I'm honored that you finally got around to asking me that question.

My answer to that question is a firm "NO." Why?

For the same reasons I have offered before. The Biblical scriptural quotes, three of which can be found in the New Testament, are all written by one man.

That man is the Apostle Paul, whom I wrote about the other day, who once persecuted the early Christians, then claimed to have seen a vision of the risen Jesus, and even carried on a conversation with Jesus.

Do you believe that? I sure don't. So I have to view Paul's writings with a dubious eye, especially his views on sexual purity.

Old Testament edicts and commandments do not apply to Gentiles, which is something you have stated yourself, albeit when you were cornered.

So what makes me state with confidence that homosexuality is not a sin? Because God nor his Son did not themselves offer a word of condemnation against it.

If homosexuality was this God awful sin, as you allege, you would think that God would have made it the 11th Commandment and that Moses would have mentioned something about it, for that is one man whom I feel did speak with God.

Those who have written Biblically about homosexuality or other sexual deviancies (differences) I'm sure were just as opposed to them as some modern day men are. But they are the opinions of the men who wrote about the acts, not God or his Son.

Sexual attraction is not something that we can alter or program within us. We are attracted to what we are attracted to. For sure, straight people have a much easier time on this Earth finding what it is they seek, and thus are considered to be normal.

But being straight does not guarantee that. There are deviancies among straight people, and even some weird ones.

Conservative, God made us all horny. We all love sex. The only thing natural is to indulge in what comes natural to us as an individual, if we can find a willing ADULT partner.

Outside of that, so long as no one is `physically or mentally harmed, it's no one else's business what they do behind closed doors.

So take your Apostle Paul, the man with a vision of Jesus running around in his head, and shove him where the sun doesn't shine. I'll defer to the words of Jesus himself for guidance in my life.

August 30, 2014 at 1:11 a.m.
fairmon said...

inqmind said..So spare me any idea that business is altruistic.

Businesses are not created or intended to be altruistic. How altruistic are you? Do you refuse to buy anything imported and buy only made in America even if more expensive to make sure you do your part in supporting American workers and businesses? I would guess you drive an imported auto and you are a Walmart shopper.

Increase compensation to the levels you alluded to and inflation would move the poverty line to a new level with the new number of people at or below the poverty level being at or near the current number. Again, why should any employer pay anyone beyond their capability. How much skill is required to say do you want a drink or fries with that?

The more an employee has to offer an employer the more they will pay to attract and retain them.

Your understanding of how the business system works is lacking and obviously you don't invest in stocks which is essentially being a small owner of a business with your money at risk. Those that do invest expect and should receive a good return on their money, the risk/reward equation works if government doesn't get involved. There would be no sizeable businesses if investors were not willing to invest their money to enable starting and operating a business. Everything would be a here today gone tomorrow mom and pop operations.

Your statement that all the competent engineers and scientist an employer wants are available. There certainly are not and those with the knowledge and skill to do high tech work that does not require an engineer or scientist or other university degree are even less available. Some companies with very good compensation rates have run ads, offered signing bonuses and relocation allowance seeking qualified employees with little success.

If you know where the qualified people are you should become a head hunter and get wealthy matching people with employers by sending intelligent, reliable people with the desired skills to employers who would be most appreciative.

August 30, 2014 at 1:14 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "People don't start businesses and risk everything as a patriotic good will gesture. I don't buy stock nor do others buy stock in a company as a good will patriotic gesture. The tax on any business should be ZERO which the prices would reflect to the benefit of all consumers and it would create a need to hire more people to meet the increased demand."

So Fairmon, you're okay with the burden of all taxes to be shared by individuals throughout this nation? You REALLY want to drive the national debt through the ceiling, don't you?

" McDonalds employees are demanding $15 an hour, how much knowledge skill and ability does it take to say do you want fries and a drink with that."

That's hardly the point. Skill has nothing to do with the time dedicated to the job, and the fact that without those workers, nothing would be sold to anyone.

Eight hours on a job should pay a living wage. The average McDonald's restaurant does about $2 million per year in sales. Their average profit margin is just under 20%.

$15.00 an hour might be a bit too much, but with an average profit of $400,000 per year, a living wage of $12.00 an hour paid to those who keep the sales moving in such restaurants, would not set back profits all that much.

It might even save them money. I proved it to myself that the constant need to hire people, train them, get them up to speed in dealing with customers, is a drain on profits.

By paying people a wage that keeps them satisfied, those costs disappear because a constant staff, that customers can count on every time the walk in the door, keeps customers coming back.

It's a win-win for everyone.

There are those who only see the immediate effect on what they earn, and others look at the long term.

A long termer is going to do well in business. A short termer is going to drive himself crazy and will likely lose it all.

August 30, 2014 at 1:31 a.m.
alprova said...

Conservative, you need to quit fretting about homosexuality so much, leave your home for an hour or so, and look for a partner who knows where to find a big ol' whopper and chow down for a few minutes.

It might be that you will find some immense pleasure that you have forgotten that still exists at certain places where you can go to discover people like yourself, who share a common craving.

Now hold on!! You're probably about to grab your phone and call the TFP to complain about my vulgarity again.

Before you do, go back up and reread my sentences.

I'm urging you to take a friend to your nearest Burger King for lunch.

Get your mind out of the gutter.

August 30, 2014 at 1:57 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said..A long termer is going to do well in business. A short termer is going to drive himself crazy and will likely lose it all.

So you see McDonalds as a short termer that will likely lose it all? Are you suggesting the minimum wage for those in jobs that are not long term, normally a first time job or someone that is temporarily supplementing their income should be paid a minimum of $12 an hour? Would that retain people long term? Many if not most work less than 30 hours per week.

August 30, 2014 at 5:19 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said..So Fairmon, you're okay with the burden of all taxes to be shared by individuals throughout this nation? You REALLY want to drive the national debt through the ceiling, don't you?

That would not happen. We have different opinions on that and no amount of exchanging of opinions will change the others opinion. The consumption tax as proposed in the "fair tax" legislation if not screwed up by congress would be the best answer to all the tax issues and simplification of the tax codes.

Of course no opinion expressed here will have any impact on anything.

August 30, 2014 at 5:23 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "So you see McDonalds as a short termer that will likely lose it all?"

I believe they are losing money they could be making, but my statement applied more to small business.

"Are you suggesting the minimum wage for those in jobs that are not long term, normally a first time job or someone that is temporarily supplementing their income should be paid a minimum of $12 an hour?"

Why not? Why must they be viewed as "starter jobs?" Why not hire someone and keep them on staff for 30 years or more?

"Would that retain people long term?"

Yes.

"Many if not most work less than 30 hours per week."

It would not be that way if I owned one of those franchises. I know for a fact that what I am typing about works. At one time I had 75 employees and I went two solid years without having the need to hire one employee. I would have went three years, but one employee died.

Depending on the type of business, it can cost hundreds of dollars to hire a new employee. In the business I had back then, it took thousands of dollars to hire an employee.

I was money ahead to pay people far more than the "norm" to avoid those hassles and the expense.

Loyalty used to be the norm in this nation. No more. It needs to be brought back. That concept built this nation, whether people believe it or not.

The concept "pay 'em just enough so they can pay their bills" is crap and it is very Republican, and it is ruining this nation.

August 30, 2014 at 8:03 a.m.
alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "That would not happen."

Is that so? The reduction in business taxes by GWB has contributed greatly to the debt we have on the books today, or are you not aware of that fact?

"We have different opinions on that and no amount of exchanging of opinions will change the others opinion. The consumption tax as proposed in the "fair tax" legislation if not screwed up by congress would be the best answer to all the tax issues and simplification of the tax codes."

I'm for the Fair Tax as well, but the reality of the situation is that it hasn't went anywhere in 20 years.

"Of course no opinion expressed here will have any impact on anything."

No it won't, but that does not mean we cannot stay rooted on the ground when discussing the issues instead of flying some magical carpet in the clouds.

August 30, 2014 at 8:08 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Regarding your comments at 1:11 a.m.

Christianity is about the person and work of Jesus Christ, accepting who He is and what He did for all of mankind.

If one does not accept who He is and what He did for that individual, then that one has no right to claim he is a Christian.

Yes, or no?

August 30, 2014 at 8:21 a.m.
alprova said...

Conservative, I am not going to answer that question with a simple yes or a no, because you have loaded that question with one of your opinions.

You believe Jesus to be God. I do not. Everything else is exactly as it should be, as you state it.

What's more, I have not deviated one inch from what you state, with that one exception that bothers you very much.

The Bible contradicts the notion that Jesus was God in so many places, with the occasional author claiming otherwise. Again, Jesus never claimed to be God, and God never claimed to be Jesus, and there is still the question on the table as to who the holy Ghost is.

To have a trinity, there must be three. Who is that third person who presumably sits at the left hand side of God?

August 30, 2014 at 8:42 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Both parties allow 1/2 a trillion dollars leave our economy each year and they are both concerned with the country's debt? It's hard for me to engage people in a serious economic/debt conversation when they ignore that fact.

August 30, 2014 at 8:47 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Well then what is your opinion of what constitutes a Christian?

August 30, 2014 at 8:49 a.m.
alprova said...

Conservative, first and foremost, in order to be a Christian, one must believe there was a Jesus Christ and that he walked this Earth as a man.

A Christian must believe that he died on the cross for all our sins and then rose to Heaven to be at the right hand side of God.

(John 3:16)

A Christian will then ask the Lord for forgiveness of their sins and ask Jesus to become their personal Savior forever.

A Christian will then spend the rest of their life trying to emulate Jesus Christ and abide by his teachings which can be found in the Bible.

That's what being a Christian means to me. I'm sure you're going to find some disagreement with it. So be it.

August 30, 2014 at 9:13 a.m.
limric said...

Good one Clay.

Burger King is moving its headquarters to Canada as a tax-dodging - enabled by a tax code that ‘treats corporations better than people.’

Even though Burger King renounces its US citizenship (”Corporations are people to my friends”), it keeps the same executives, the same stores or facilities, the same employees, and the same customers — right here in the US. The only things that changes is the company sheds certain tax obligations. The company still receives all the benefits of US roads and infrastructure, police and fire protection, courts, military protection, etc. The US still educates its workforce and subsidizes its ultra-low wages with food stamps, Medicaid, and other available taxpayer paid services.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) said, "If a person did that, we’d call them a freeloader.” I agree.

If anyone has issues with ‘inversion’, just wait until they implement the TPP; then you’ll see calamity.

August 30, 2014 at 9:17 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo needs Imodium today.

August 30, 2014 at 9:31 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

You said a lot of things that appear as Christian doctrine. However, if you were to go into detail you would be found to disagree with Christian doctrine. One of which you have denied is the deity of Jesus Christ, which is an essential Christian doctrine, one which must be believed in order to be saved.

The deity of Jesus aside for now, you have many insurmountable problems.

One of those problems is that you deny that the Bible is the word of God. You claim it is just the word of man.

Now, the Bible is the foundation for the doctrine of Christianity, one would not know anything about the doctrines of Christianity apart from it.

Most important, you cited John 3:16, which according to you was just the opinion of a man, for Jesus, according to your theology, did not say these words:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 KJV

August 30, 2014 at 9:42 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said..Depending on the type of business, it can cost hundreds of dollars to hire a new employee. In the business I had back then, it took thousands of dollars to hire an employee.

Employers with that training task and cost do have to pay enough to attract and retain but when training is a matter of a few hours the incentive to retain is not so great. Your policy whether in writing or not was to pay enough to attract and retain those you wanted to keep. Most employers with a need to retain those hired survey the labor supply area and establish pay and benefits in the upper centile.

The poverty level number has changed very little since LBJ declared war on poverty however the cost of welfare with more and more free stuff instead of spending that money on training and education has gone up.

August 30, 2014 at 9:49 a.m.
fairmon said...

iqmind states..Many GM or owners of old-school companies in this town are so averse to risk they cannot cope with risk or bright, young technical talent, and the necessity to invest in new technology to survive.

Do you have an example of a company with the capital to spend on technology that has not done so? Some small mom & pop may not be able to afford it or may not understand the value and they will drop out and be replaced. Businesses don't have unlimited funds like the government and most cannot borrow enough to make major technology investments.

August 30, 2014 at 10:09 a.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "You said a lot of things that appear as Christian doctrine. However, if you were to go into detail you would be found to disagree with Christian doctrine. One of which you have denied is the deity of Jesus Christ, which is an essential Christian doctrine, one which must be believed in order to be saved."

There is nothing in the Bible that tells me that as a Christian, I MUST believe that Jesus was/is God.

"The deity of Jesus aside for now, you have many insurmountable problems."

Oh boy...here it comes...

"One of those problems is that you deny that the Bible is the word of God. You claim it is just the word of man."

It is the word of man. More specifically, it is the word of some 40 men who penned letters that we know as the Bible.

"Now, the Bible is the foundation for the doctrine of Christianity, one would not know anything about the doctrines of Christianity apart from it."

And yet, the word Christian only appears three times throughout the entire Bible. Can you explain that? Ther Bible does not appear to have been written for Christians. What say you to that?

"Most important, you cited John 3:16, which according to you was just the opinion of a man, for Jesus, according to your theology, did not say these words:"

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 KJV"

No Sir, I have never denied one word written in the New Testament as attributed to the Lord having said it himself.

And had Jesus ever opined on the issue of sexual purity, or had God offered it as a commandment, I would be right with you on this anti-homosexuality wagon, but the fact is, neither one has ever condemned ANY sexual act, with the exception of perhaps prostitution and infidelity.

So you and I will continue to disagree on this issue, each of us believing we are on the right side of it.

You deliver your judgments by picking scripture out of the context it is presented whereas I tend to keep scripture in context at all times.

You equally ignore as much written in the Bible as that you pluck to support some of your stances. Some of what you claim is not Biblically supported by any author.

You're way too bothered by the subject of homosexuality for there not to be a good reason for it. And that reason, I suspect is that you were once a practicing homosexual and have been "reformed."

You've never confirmed or denied it, so it just lays there on the table.

Understand that it makes no matter to me what the truth is to that, and whatever the case may be, you really need to get a life outside of worrying what others are doing privately.

August 30, 2014 at 10:20 a.m.

Elizabeth Warren is a fine one to quote. LOL

Politicians like her are often owned by corporations, yet they blast them.

The real war is being waged against small to medium sized businesses and folks who work for themselves. "you didn't build that, someone else did"

August 30, 2014 at 10:22 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Has there ever, in the history of ever, been a poster more besotted by seeing his words in print, than ALPO? Good Grief liar, go back to selling used rust "off the books".

August 30, 2014 at 10:25 a.m.
alprova said...

Jackie, I've tried to make it clear that I am a straight, married man. I have no interest in hooking up with you, so I would appreciate it greatly if you would quit stalking me.

August 30, 2014 at 10:31 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Fairmon sez,

"Businesses are not created or intended to be altruistic...Do you refuse to buy anything imported and buy only made in America even if more expensive(?)..I would guess you drive an imported auto and you are a Walmart shopper."

  • Businesses are persons according to the Supreme Court, they certainly are run by people, and PEOPLE are expected to be altruistic in most fath traditions.

  • I usually try to purchase items based on quality.

  • I've owned many cars both imports and domestic, currently I only own domestic cars.

  • I'll shop Walmart once in a while but it is too far to drive to one to do it often. (Not a good business model these days)

Fairmon sez, "Your understanding of how the business system works is lacking and obviously you don't invest in stocks which is essentially being a small owner of a business with your money at risk. "

-I have a modest but sufficient portfolio with about a 17% annualize return for the last several years so I guess I'm a qualified small business owner.

Fairmon sez, "...There certainly are not (competent engineers and scientists) and those with the knowledge and skill to do high tech work that does not require an engineer or scientist or other university degree are even less available.

  • There are plenty of scientists and engineers, and in a good free market economy, they go where they get the best salary and where their capability is recognized and respected. (You get what you pay for). Go look at the number of students in graduate science/engineering programs looking for jobs.

  • Yes skilled, non-college educated labor is limited (so are good business opportunities in the sector that uses them), but guess what, if you paid teachers according to the value of your children and quite complaining every time Janie or Johnny gets disciplined for cutting up, there would be a lot more of that labor available.

In closing, You must believe the government should subsidize business, I don't. If you believe in capitalism, any venture with a good economic model offering a product the market wants will be successful.

A good manager/owner hires people at competitive wages that can be trusted to do the job that they understand but the manager may not, something I've observed is often lacking in this town.

ps: The number of persons below the poverty level has risen since LBJ declared war, but if you paid a living wage it would have dropped. People I know in Chat never pay in the upper percentile but intentionally try for mid-range or under, thereby getting mediocre talent.

August 30, 2014 at 10:34 a.m.
fairmon said...

alprova said...

Fairmon wrote: "That would not happen."

Is that so? The reduction in business taxes by GWB has contributed greatly to the debt we have on the books today, or are you not aware of that fact?

That is not a fact and there is no supporting data to support that opinion. It is not possible to say what the business tax revenue would have been had there been no change. Most likely it would have gone down with the businesses being even less competitive. The debt increase results from increased spending much of which is funding wars and welfare.

Why would you resent my making money by investing in foreign owned companies and against the dollar? An investor doesn't control the direction or results but anticipates and profits from accurately anticipating them. I have two types of investments:

1-Fundamentally sound companies that pay good dividends and have steady growth. Rarely sell any of them but occasionally add to them if there is a temporary drop in their cost.

2-Short term, a few days, weeks, or months, trades with a stock in a trend either up or down with an objective of a minimum profit of $400 per day. The most profitable markets are when they go down and continue going down for an extended period of time like in 2008 and 2009.

If I don't make good money then I will be less able to support those who could provide for themselves but won't and prefer it come from their uncle in D.C.

August 30, 2014 at 10:34 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo...not stalking...just reminding people of your propensity to lie with impunity, If you object, you know what to do to stop it.

August 30, 2014 at 10:42 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Do you have an example of a company with the capital to spend on technology that has not done so?"

Fairmon, have you been to a Hobby Lobby lately? Their POS equipment is 1980 to 1990's technology at best.

August 30, 2014 at 10:45 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 KJV"

No Sir, I have never denied one word written in the New Testament as attributed to the Lord having said it himself.

=================================================

You deny that most of the Gospel of John is the word of God and is just his opinion and consequently is not binding, in fact he has to be a liar according to your thinking.

So, why do you accept John 3:16 as the words of Jesus when John wrote those words?

According to your thinking,you only have the word of John that John 3:16 are the words of Jesus Christ. How do you know they are the words of Jesus Christ and not just a quote made up by him?

I caught inquiringmind making up a quote by me a day or so ago. How do you know John 3:16 is a quote from Jesus Christ when you don't trust anything else he wrote in his Gospel?

August 30, 2014 at 10:52 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

We as a country continue to peddle in the cheap prices we pay from the result of cheap foreign labor. This is why, what were once the middle class factory jobs, are becoming more and more endangered. It's cheaper for a company to shift their operations to the Far East and pay the low import taxes the US continues to charge, then to keep the operation here in the US and pay Americans a working wage. This results in the half a trillion dollars that leaves our economy each year. Then everyone is up in arms because the Feds have to continue to pump money into the economy to keep our system propped up, contributing to our national debt. As long as we continue to operate with a net trade deficit, our economy is going to continue to dry up, but when is the last time you have heard either party mention that?

August 30, 2014 at 10:59 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

^ maybe never

August 30, 2014 at 11:06 a.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the TFP's favorite whiner wrote: "Alpo...not stalking...just reminding people of your propensity to lie with impunity, If you object, you know what to do to stop it."

I don't care what you post. You're as credible as Ted Cruz is. I've not posted one word about you in many days. So what are these lies you think you are referring to?

And I do remind you that you have yet to have proven me to have offered so much as one lie in this forum.

YOU on the other hand, have offered more than one documented lie.

Remember?

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270586

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270592

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270593

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/18/ostrich/#c270595

August 30, 2014 at 11:18 a.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "You deny that most of the Gospel of John is the word of God and is just his opinion and consequently is not binding, in fact he has to be a liar according to your thinking."

The Bible is a collection of letters, written by approximately 40 authors. You're not going to convince me that God or his Son dictated every single word. Of course they are filled with opinions.

Now, that aside, I trust quotations of Jesus in the New Testament, and quotations attributed to God in the Old Testament.

"So, why do you accept John 3:16 as the words of Jesus when John wrote those words?"

Because they are quotes. I trust quotes. I do not trust opinions and assertions.

"According to your thinking,you only have the word of John that John 3:16 are the words of Jesus Christ. How do you know they are the words of Jesus Christ and not just a quote made up by him?"

I don't and neither do you. I merely trust quotes more so than I trust one who speaks for either one.

August 30, 2014 at 11:29 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo, you, dwarf, do not determine the statute of limitations on Libel. Live with it.

August 30, 2014 at 11:54 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"So, why do you accept John 3:16 as the words of Jesus when John wrote those words?"

Because they are quotes. I trust quotes. I do not trust opinions and assertions

===============================================

But you don't trust John who said they were the words of Jesus Christ.

In your opinion he is a liar, so how can you pick and chose when he is lying and when he is telling the truth?

The translators put the words of Jesus in quotes and you don't trust them either.

August 30, 2014 at 11:55 a.m.
TheJackDennis said...

And...I haven't proven??? Since when did proof mean anything to you? Laughable.

August 30, 2014 at 11:56 a.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "You deny that most of the Gospel of John is the word of God and is just his opinion and consequently is not binding, in fact he has to be a liar according to your thinking."

The Bible is a collection of letters, written by approximately 40 authors. You're not going to convince me that God or his Son dictated every single word. Of course they are filled with opinions.

================================================================

"Dictation" is not the doctrine taught in the Bible as to the author of Scripture:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:17

The Bible does not teach that any man is the "author" of Scripture as you stated.

August 30, 2014 at 12:04 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

One has to believe the doctrines of Christianity to be a Christian.

This is simply fundamentally true.

You use words of Christianity but you have different meanings for them.

You use the words Jesus Christ but you mean things different than what Christians mean for the words Jesus Christ.

You use the word Bible but you have a different meaning for the word than what Christians have for the word Bible.

You use the words Son of God but you have a different meaning for those words than what Christians have for the words Son of God.

Can you name for me even one, just one Christian church that would have you for a member, if you were to state to the congregation what you have said to me so far about these words above?

August 30, 2014 at 12:18 p.m.
fairmon said...

GaussianInteger said...

"Do you have an example of a company with the capital to spend on technology that has not done so?"

Fairmon, have you been to a Hobby Lobby lately? Their POS equipment is 1980 to 1990's technology at best.

I have not been to a Hobby Lobby and don't plan to visit one but apparently they are profitable with no need to invest in added or new technology. I don't consider them a business that is additive or needed. I would guess most of their products are imported and not really helpful to the U.S. economy

August 30, 2014 at 1:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

inqmind said...if you paid teachers according to the value of your children and quite complaining every time Janie or Johnny gets disciplined for cutting up, there would be a lot more of that labor available.

I agree and would like to see a better weeding out of incompetents and the best getting paid more. I agree discipline in schools is too lax.

August 30, 2014 at 1:07 p.m.
fairmon said...

inqmind said...In closing, You must believe the government should subsidize business, I don't. If you believe in capitalism, any venture with a good economic model offering a product the market wants will be successful.

I don't know how you concluded that but I don't think government should subsidize or otherwise interfere with business. I know of nothing the government attempts to manage that is managed or run efficiently. Their answer is always throw more money at it. I do see the need for reasonable, understandable and enforceable regulations.

August 30, 2014 at 1:11 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

MR. PROVANCHER:, Do you consider lying a sin?

August 30, 2014 at 1:15 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the hypocrite, you answer that question FIRST for your own lies, then you may ask me.

August 30, 2014 at 1:31 p.m.
fairmon said...

inqmind said..The number of persons below the poverty level has risen since LBJ declared war, but if you paid a living wage it would have dropped. People I know in Chat never pay in the upper percentile but intentionally try for mid-range or under, thereby getting mediocre talent.

So paying more and charging more for products or services would cure the economy? Actually cost increase due to increased wages or other reasons result in a lower sales volume due to the increase in prices which would ultimately add to the number at or below the new higher poverty level.

Everything purchased is affected by the cost of energy and neither congress or the administration has addressed that issue properly. Those working for under $36,000 a year and paying the cost of gas and other products affected by the cost of energy are hurt the worst and spend a higher percent of spendable income as a result of energy cost. Reducing the cost of gas alone is a major economic stimulus not to mention all the other cost that are to some extent related to the cost of energy. Just the cost of transporting products increases their cost plus it increases the cost of heating, cooling, cooking, home repairs, rent etc. etc. It is also a major cause of an unsustainable trade deficit and transfer of wealth from the U.S.

Would you like to see a business tax of 50% of profits? What affect would that have on U.S. based businesses and the economy? Assuming your answer is it would be detrimental then how do you conclude the current rates, which are added to the cost to all consumers, are not?

August 30, 2014 at 1:34 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Fairmon, tyou say that "An investor doesn't control the direction or results but anticipates and profits from accurately anticipating them" but in a publicly traded company the stockholders DO have the power to control direction or results by participating in stockholder/board meetings.

August 30, 2014 at 1:37 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Sure it is Anthony. And you're habitual.

August 30, 2014 at 1:42 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities,slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.

August 30, 2014 at 2:01 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, do you consider looking for "Gay Bathhouses" on Google a sin?

August 30, 2014 at 2:57 p.m.

Guass, Hobby Lobby? Is that more HL bashing? Why would they need to invest in technology? Hobby Lobby? They sell stuff for crafts, art, decorations and seasonal stuff. That's not applicable to them.

August 30, 2014 at 2:58 p.m.

We live in the age of the corporate whore politician, and that includes the POTUS, and both parties. Elizabeth Warren probably takes all kinds of freebies for favors from corporations. Nobody's hands are clean.

August 30, 2014 at 3:01 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie whined "Sure it is Anthony. And you're habitual."

I have not mentioned a damn thing about you in several days. It's very hard to habitually lie when you aren't even on my radar screen.

Thou hypocrite. Tend to your own business before you start calling out anyone for theirs.

"Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy."

I posted what one high ranking staff member thinks of you, yesterday. You're an idiot if you think you're going to complain again and get anything else done after your latest behavior, since I have honored all requests asked of me, and you are STILL harrassing me.

$^*& you moron.

August 30, 2014 at 3:06 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Alpo, and I will continue to be in your face until you retract your libelous BS. And shame on TFP for not enforcing their own policy.

August 30, 2014 at 3:15 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie wrote: "Alpo, and I will continue to be in your face until you retract your libelous BS."

I have nothing to retract. You wrote it. I repeated it.

"And shame on TFP for not enforcing their own policy."

Hey dummy, here's a hint for you. No one can libel someone who writes their own confession.

August 30, 2014 at 3:35 p.m.
alprova said...

Z-man wrote: "Why would they need to invest in technology? Hobby Lobby? They sell stuff for crafts, art, decorations and seasonal stuff. That's not applicable to them."

Oh but you're not thinking correctly. Some late model point of sale equipment might protect their customers from having their identity stolen while doing business with Hobby Lobby.

August 30, 2014 at 3:38 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Hey moron, here's a couple question s you always dodge. Where's the proof of me being an excommunicated priest from TX? Hmm? Where's the proof of me ever going bankrupt? Hmmm? Maybe TFP buys your BS. I'll await your proof. Otherwise you're a vicious, cowardly, liar. Waiting.

August 30, 2014 at 3:45 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the little whiner wrote: "Hey moron, here's a couple question s you always dodge. Where's the proof of me being an excommunicated priest from TX? Hmm? Where's the proof of me ever going bankrupt?"

You're determined to keep all this crap alive, aren't you? I told you a couple of weeks ago that I'm done indulging you in these childish games. Whine, cry, throw a fit if you like, I'm not indulging you any longer.

You're going to be a moron for the rest of your life, but I'm done. You're an idiot and a troll. I'm done playing with trolls.

You'd be better off to give it all up, because you're not going to win this thing. The more I ignore you, the worse you get. It's hilarious to watch. So sit and spin for all I care.

"Maybe TFP buys your BS. I'll await your proof. Otherwise you're a vicious, cowardly, liar. Waiting."

You just don't get it. You're a proven liar and you whined to the TFP about your own lies. They understand that. So anything else you think you have to whine about is quite moot. It's not going to be taken seriously. You're not taken seriously.

"...I fully realize that this issue arose when a rap sheet of a Knoxville sex offender was posted as possibly being ‘TheJackDennis’, and I know that he wrote a comment in response to that confirming that it was. Now, I have no idea why he wrote that, or what he was thinking when he did (I think that about all of his posts, though)."

You're a joke as far as the TFP is concerned and the above paragraph proves it.

August 30, 2014 at 4:35 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "But you don't trust John who said they were the words of Jesus Christ."

Sure I do.

"In your opinion he is a liar, so how can you pick and chose when he is lying and when he is telling the truth?"

When have I called John a liar? I do not trust the words of the Apostle Paul...that I have written, but John? I'm okay with most of what he wrote.

"The translators put the words of Jesus in quotes and you don't trust them either."

Why are you misrepresenting what I have written. I defend the words of Jesus all the time. I trust them. Youy don't however because you seem to be under the impression that Jesus or God condemns homosexuality, nad the fact is neither one of them does.

August 30, 2014 at 4:43 p.m.
alprova said...

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16"

I can lay an apple on a table and be inspired to write what I believe that apple would say if it could communicate with us.

Inspriation does not necessarily mean that every single word is inspired by God or the Son. An inspiration can and most likely will include conjured thoughts.

"The Bible does not teach that any man is the "author" of Scripture as you stated."

For the love of God, you're not that flipping ignorant, are you? You know damn and well that every one of the Apostles were mortal men. They were not dieties.

August 30, 2014 at 4:48 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

So Alpo, your Answer is not to answer? You made libelous charges and you don't have the pebbles to admit it? And you pine for credibility? It's easy, moron. Post evidence of excommunication and bankruptcy.. Seems to me, when pinned down, you want to clam up. No? Like I've said. A liar and a fraud.

August 30, 2014 at 4:50 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative worte: "One has to believe the doctrines of Christianity to be a Christian."

Uh huh...

"This is simply fundamentally true."

Uh huh...

"You use words of Christianity but you have different meanings for them."

No I don't. You do.

"You use the words Jesus Christ but you mean things different than what Christians mean for the words Jesus Christ."

No I don't. You do.

"You use the word Bible but you have a different meaning for the word than what Christians have for the word Bible."

Because I recognize the fact that the Bible is not pure, unaltered, nor the word of God?

That's your problem. It is not mine.

"You use the words Son of God but you have a different meaning for those words than what Christians have for the words Son of God."

Sir, there are many Christians who agree with my stance that God was not Jesus and visa/versa.

"Can you name for me even one, just one Christian church that would have you for a member, if you were to state to the congregation what you have said to me so far about these words above?"

What for? So you can harrass them? No thanks. You're not forthcoming with whom you are, what religious platform you adhere to, or where you attend church, so you don't get to discover that of mine.

August 30, 2014 at 4:54 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the whier wrote: "So Alpo, your Answer is not to answer?"

That's right. It's no longer an issue as far as I'm concerned.

"You made libelous charges and you don't have the pebbles to admit it? And you pine for credibility?"

Have you admitted that you lied? Don't you DARE accuse anyone else of lying until you own up to your lies.

"It's easy, moron. Post evidence of excommunication and bankruptcy."

It's easier to ignore you and your incessant whining, which is going to be my course of action.

"Seems to me, when pinned down, you want to clam up. No? Like I've said. A liar and a fraud."

Yrds you are and everyone knows it. When you fess up to your lies, then get back to me about your accusation.

August 30, 2014 at 4:58 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Guass, Hobby Lobby? Is that more HL bashing? Why would they need to invest in technology? Hobby Lobby? They sell stuff for crafts, art, decorations and seasonal stuff. That's not applicable to them."

What in the hell are you talking about? It's not "HL bashing", it's the truth. The cashiers have to manually punch in every price. Do you understand the inefficiency in that when they are selling that much product? Just about every company that size is scanning UPC's. Damn dude, chill out. I was just stating a fact.

August 30, 2014 at 5:05 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

Who do you think you are fooling with Uh huh... and No I don't, You do.

You don't dare name a Church or a well known commentator or Minister who agrees with you.

I could find some, maybe scores of Christian churches on the web that give "what we believe" positions stating what I have stated contrary to your heresies.

You would not find one Christian church website that would agree your heretical beliefs.

August 30, 2014 at 5:07 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

"You use the words Son of God but you have a different meaning for those words than what Christians have for the words Son of God."

Sir, there are many Christians who agree with my stance that God was not Jesus and visa/versa.

===========================================================

Not one!

You can't even name one.

August 30, 2014 at 5:12 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Lame, Alpo. You think dodging gives you creds? BTW, what lies have I told?

August 30, 2014 at 5:18 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova said....

"The Bible does not teach that any man is the "author" of Scripture as you stated."

For the love of God, you're not that flipping ignorant, are you? You know damn and well that every one of the Apostles were mortal men. They were not dieties.

=============================================================

Mr. Anthony Provancher

The end result is that holy men of God per Scripture wrote what God wanted them to write.

You don't believe that is possible?

You don't believe that the God of heaven and earth could not move men to write his revelation to mankind?

It is very evident that you are the ignorant one.

August 30, 2014 at 5:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Okay...it was nice having a civil discussion while it lasted. Too bad you want to revert to your previous behavior.

You really believe that all Christians believe God was Jesus? You're delusional or you have not attended many differing churches from the one you might be attending currently.

August 30, 2014 at 5:19 p.m.
conservative said...

Jesus was God incarnate.

The Bible teaches that as I explained to you.

You reject the word of God as usual.

Again you can't name one Christian or one Church that agrees with your stated beliefs.

August 30, 2014 at 5:25 p.m.
alprova said...

Jeckie wrote: "BTW, what lies have I told?"

You know damn well what lies you have typewritten into this forum. There have been several of them.

You refuse to admit to even one of them, so who in the Hell are you to complain about anyone else lying when EVERYONE who participates in here KNOWS for a fact that you have purposely lied?

Your "tongue-in-cheek" confession to being a man you were not was an intentional lie.

Your association of my name to that of Anthony M. Provencher was an intentional lie.

Start with those two and let's see if you have the gonads to admit you intentionally lied to the group.

August 30, 2014 at 5:25 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "Jesus was God incarnate. The Bible teaches that as I explained to you."

And I refuted it with a verse of scripture posted in the same chapter;

John 1:18

No man hath ever seen God

August 30, 2014 at 5:30 p.m.
conservative said...

"Can you name for me even one, just one Christian church that would have you for a member, if you were to state to the congregation what you have said to me so far about these words above?"

What for? So you can harrass them? No thanks. You're not forthcoming with whom you are, what religious platform you adhere to, or where you attend church, so you don't get to discover that of mine.

==========================================================

Mr. Anthony Provancher

I didn't ask for the name of the church that you say you attend.

I plainly asked you to name one Christian church or Christian Minister or Christian commentator that agrees with on.

August 30, 2014 at 5:31 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

So my tongue n cheek "confession" was a lie? Is that what you're saying? The Anthony M. Provencher ditty seemed close enough to the truth..using your standards. So rather than post evidence, you chose to "ignore me". That's real bravery, Stump. Proof, fool, proof.

August 30, 2014 at 5:34 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher

You will not find one professing Christian church with a statement of belief on the internet, that agrees with your heresies.

August 30, 2014 at 5:44 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Anthony Provancher, I think any reasonable poster here would ask..."Anthony, if you have proof of a priestly defrocking, or a bankruptcy, why not post it"?

August 30, 2014 at 5:51 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

^^^. Pinned down...watch him squirm.

August 30, 2014 at 5:53 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr Anthony Provancher said:

"What for? So you can harrass them? No thanks. You're not forthcoming with whom you are, what religious platform you adhere to, or where you attend church, so you don't get to discover that of mine."

==============================================================

I have been telling you my Christian beliefs and doctrines for years!

Even more so the last couple of days.

Who are you trying to deceive?

I marvel at your brazen efforts to deceive.

August 30, 2014 at 6:06 p.m.

Looks like Michael Sam was cut by the St.Louis Rams.

Let's see how a long it takes for a lawsuit to filed, probably backed by Al Sharpton or Oprah Winfrey.

I wonder if BO had a "gay" son, if he would look like SAM.

Since Ferguson is part of the St. Louis area, I wonder if somehow Al Sharpton and the media will connect Sam with Ferguson somehow. Never know.

August 30, 2014 at 6:18 p.m.

I wonder if Clay will draw a cartoon about it since he times homosexual related cartoons for Sundays?

August 30, 2014 at 6:20 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

^They sure get guys like you, Orr, Caddy, and ConMan aroused. Maybe he'll draw a "gay bathhouse"?

August 30, 2014 at 6:26 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Maybe he will draw a toon of Alpo attempting to tell the truth, and choking on the words.

August 30, 2014 at 6:29 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie wrote: "Anthony Provancher, I think any reasonable poster here would ask..."Anthony, if you have proof of a priestly defrocking, or a bankruptcy, why not post it"?"

Well, I'll tell you what. You see if you can get anyone who is reasonable to ask me that question and I'll consider answering it.

I don't see anyone coming to your rescue, do you?

The TFP isn't going to come to your rescue this time. You're an idiot in their eyes.

August 30, 2014 at 6:42 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie wrote: "Maybe he will draw a toon of Alpo attempting to tell the truth, and choking on the words."

Hey Jackie, why don't you put the two issues to bed once and for all, by posting the words, "I have never been a Priest and I've never filed bankruptcy."

When you do that, people may believe you that you have never been a priest and that you've never filed for bankruptcy. That will make me look like a liar, but you're not going to post those words, are you?

You like the idea of doubt swirling around your head like a halo.

This is your last chance to converse with me, unless you post those words above. I'm not indulging your faux outrage any longer, if you are not going to deny certain things you believe to be untrue.

You don't squirm. You simply ignore.

August 30, 2014 at 6:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative wrote: "I have been telling you my Christian beliefs and doctrines for years!"

Sir, I'm not the only person to tell you that your beliefs are off the wall. Your religious platform is unlike any other I have ran across, and I have attended many churches.

What branch of Christianity is it you claim to be aligned with? You're a fundamentalist, that's for sure, but which one?

Holiness? Church of Christ (My least favorite), Foot Washin' Baptist...which one?

It would be nice of you to illustrate how you received your religious instruction and how recently you received it.

I don't understand how it is that you believe you have had the exposure to Christianity long enough to know what each church holds near and dear as to what they believe.

Pentecostals do not embrace the Trinity Theory. Christianity emerged from Judaism, which is a monotheistic religion.

The Shema of the Hebrew Scriptures - "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one." - Deuteronomy 6:4

The first of the Ten Commandments — "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." It does not say before "us".

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.- Mark 12:29

The Lord is not two or three...but ONE!!

August 30, 2014 at 7:14 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

Let's see, Alpo. You want me to deny fallacious charges about which you won't provide evidence. Not bloody likely, you coward.

August 30, 2014 at 7:17 p.m.
alprova said...

I knew you wouldn't deny them, because you and I both know they are so very true.

But, I'm done discussing anything about you. I will not respond to any charge that I have lied about a thing regarding you, for you just confirmed it all, whether you meant to or not.

Don't blame me for keeping either issue alive. You refuse to deny them but complain I am lying? Of course, that makes perfect sense.

Just remember, the TFP thinks your a blooming idiot.

You proved why this evening.

August 30, 2014 at 7:23 p.m.
TheJackDennis said...

I feel for you, Alpo. And I feel for the posters on here that swallow your lies. You are one contemptible little man.

August 30, 2014 at 8:51 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

faqirmon sez, "So paying more and charging more for products or services would cure the economy? Actually cost increase due to increased wages or other reasons result in a lower sales volume due to the increase in prices which would ultimately add to the number at or below the new higher poverty level."

This is not necessarily true. However, paying employees less ultimately leads to the prices of goods being higher than workers can afford and business volume drops.

Paying employees a living wage and selling products for the true cost of the product leads more cash in the pocket of workers and to more sales volume in the whole marketplace, even at slightly higher prices.

Your argument depends on many factors, for example the percent is labor cost in the manufacture of a product is highly product-dependent. Even in low wage countries, economic development leads to price and wage pressure and higher wages make it necessary for the Machiavellian businessperson to find another low-labor cost country. You can see this is a dead end street.

August 30, 2014 at 10:33 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

connie is not able to provide a coherent explanation for the Trinity, that requires some deliberate theological education and open-mindedness.

August 30, 2014 at 10:35 p.m.
alprova said...

`I don't ask anyone to agree with me on the issue of monotheism, and I understand why people believe some of the things they do.

It's because they have been taught to believe them. There is no basis for some of them, but they continue to fight to justify their beliefs.

Not only is the word 'Trinity' not mentioned in any Bible, but neither is the CONCEPT ITSELF found in the entire Bible.

If God is truly 3 persons who are equally God, there should be an abundance of clear statements to that effect found all throughout the Bible. Yet not one scripture of a vision, dream, or clear description wherein God is shown as three persons can be found.

Not even one scripture of a description of God using the word "three" can be found.

See, my belief system works very well as I laid it out earlier today without trinity. It is not dependent on what a preacher has been preaching for fifty years and I have never been damned to Hell by anyone outside of this forum for not believing it.

The Bible was not written to be the handbook for Christianity. One would think that in order for a collection of holy writings meant to guide us as Christians, would have the word "Christian" appear more than three times within its 1,395 pages.

Abortion is not mentioned in the Bible. The act itself is not described anywhere in the Bible. So how can people use God or Jesus to condemn anyone who seeks or provides an abortion?

God himself killed many children or ordered them killed in the Old Testament, so unless someone can offer a compelling argument, I have a Biblical basis for pro-abortion that can be provided at any time. (Next time that issue comes up, I'll be sure to post some relevant scripture.)

The words "Protestant" and the word "Catholic" do not appear anywhere in the Bible.

"Baptist" appears 14 times, with the word "baptism" appearing 9 times.

I read an interesting article this evening. The word "Hell" only appears in the "Authorized" King James Version of the Bible and it appears there 54 times.

In all other versions of the Bible the number of times that word appears is zero to twelve times and those references are only found in the New Testament.

http://www.thehypertexts.com/How%20many%20tines%20is%20hell%20mentioned%20in%20the%20Bible.htm

People who want to argue that the Bible is the "word of God," perfect, unerring, unaltered, etc., are not quite firing on all cylinders.

So...the differences in opinion on the Bible will continue I suppose.

August 30, 2014 at 11:43 p.m.
alprova said...

Jackie the pitiful whiner wrote: "I feel for you, Alpo. And I feel for the posters on here that swallow your lies. You are one contemptible little man."

Sir, you bring all of this on yourself. You don't even deny one thing I have ever written regarding your past. You never have.

So where is any alleged lie on my part supposed to be residing?

You have no idea, I guess, how ineffective your allegations are.

Where I am contemptible, is in exchanging any words with you at all. You're demented. You're delusional. You're deprived of reconstructive brain cells.

August 30, 2014 at 11:53 p.m.
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